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[2019-09-18] Bayern Munich vs Crvena zvezda

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What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:00 pm

Bayern Munich will win
9
100%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
FK Crvena zvezda will win
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Total votes : 9

Re: [2019-09-18] Bayern Munich vs Crvena zvezda

Postby Firefox1234 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:26 pm

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Re: [2019-09-18] Bayern Munich vs Crvena zvezda

Postby sherpthederp » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:54 am

The Müller vs Coutinho camps are getting out of control lol. Let me help you, Müller isn’t “finished” and Coutinho isn’t “useless”. Coutinho is still getting used to playing for a new club with a broken system and Müller has a leg up on him by being familiar with all of his teammates and our style of play.

You could see that Coutinho was wreaking havok in the half spaces and creating a bit of unrest but the only player he knew to pick out was Lewy and occasionally Kimmich, who he did successfully in the box like 4 or 5 times. If our chance conversion was more clinical Coutinho could have had at least 2 assists and a handful of passes to an assist.

Müller on the other hand is finally playing centrally and will most likely have more of an impact in the CL again. Thiago and Kimmich know how he makes runs and serve him up on a platter just like he knows where Lewy will be in the box.

The important thing is we played close enough to a 4231 again that they are both most effective in.

This game of I told you so is just getting stupid. I honestly hope both players have a hug impact and will take us on a deep run in the CL
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Re: [2019-09-18] Bayern Munich vs Crvena zvezda

Postby MUTU » Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:27 am

IsiahRashad wrote:I'm sorry for you guys.

There is a big contrast between the people staying behind Müller and the people staying behind Coutinho. And it's simple. The difference is that (I'm talking about myself now), I have no problem admitting when one or the other plays better against someone. And as you see, I always enjoy the good play from Müller as well.

The difference is that I CANNOT call that someone is "finished", just after playing 184 minutes for our club. And this after great game from him. I don't saw 1 comment from the Müller "lovers" saying "Bravo" to Coutinho, despite him playing a deeper role, controlling the game well, creating couple of chances, completing 4 dribbles, scored a beaty(but from offside) and hitting the bar once.

But it's either black or white for yall. Only the scoring matters, nothing else. Müller "owns" him, because he scored. And these are comments not only from today. This is what I call the "parochialism".

Keep the tunnel vision, I'm not saying shit about this topic anymore, neither responding to anything related to it.
Let it be yours, be pleased.

Well, call me biased, but I didn't like Coutinho's performance. I saw him undecided and hesitant, and taking the wrong decisions. Nothing he was doing was leading to goals. And I spent quite some time thinking "hmmm if Mueller was on the pitch instead, maybe we'd be winning by more than one goal."

Then Lewandowski scored, so I held off this thought.

But then Mueller came on, and scored. So now I'm left wondering "what if he had come on earlier? What if he played the full 90 minutes?"

Yesterday, Coutinho played the best football I've seen from him in a long while. But for all the beauty in his touches, the final pass was missing. I was really rooting for him to prove me wrong and so sad he shot high and that he had a goal disallowed. I was hoping once he'd break the duck things would be easier for him. Unfortunately he hasn't.

That said, he's taken a step or two forward yesterday.

In the meantime, Mueller being in top form could maybe have to do with him finally having some competition. You have to realise that Mueller has had it pretty easy competition wise since Van Gaal.

I wonder if we will see both Mueller and Coutinho centrally on the pitch at the same time sometime soon. Perhaps they will complement each other.

I'm sorry if I gave you guys the impression that I want Coutinho to fail. People who know me well know that this could never be the case. Instead I'm trying to fend off the Mueller-is-finished misconception amongst fans and coaches (I'm looking at you, Jogi) alike. And, so far, Mueller's G+A/90 compares well to the peak of his career.
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Re: [2019-09-18] Bayern Munich vs Crvena zvezda

Postby Ed. » Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:31 am

So, nothing has changed since the start of the season. :roll:
Very basic attack plan which is get Coman 1v1 on the left or Get Kimmich with a crossing opportunity on the right and let anything else that happens be a bonus.
This side has decent quality but I am now on the anti-Kovac bandwagon. If you are not going to be fluent in attack then atleast be watertight in midfield and defence. Just like last season, even with some new reinforcements, everything looks and smells about average.

This side will need an extreme dose of luck to get to a QF. My prediction is finishing 2nd in the group and R16 exit.
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Re: [2019-09-18] Bayern Munich vs Crvena zvezda

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:44 am

Ed. wrote:So, nothing has changed since the start of the season. :roll:
Very basic attack plan which is get Coman 1v1 on the left or Get Kimmich with a crossing opportunity on the right and let anything else that happens be a bonus.
This side has decent quality but I am now on the anti-Kovac bandwagon. If you are not going to be fluent in attack then atleast be watertight in midfield and defence. Just like last season, even with some new reinforcements, everything looks and smells about average.

This side will need an extreme dose of luck to get to a QF. My prediction is finishing 2nd in the group and R16 exit.
Last season we won the group and still met a top team, so finishing first or runners up is not going to make such a big difference.
As for your other points, I believe that we have a team to reach the quarters ...
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Re: [2019-09-18] Bayern Munich vs Crvena zvezda

Postby Firefox1234 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:56 am

Kovac's reaction :P
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Re: [2019-09-18] Bayern Munich vs Crvena zvezda

Postby Manchu » Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:02 am

On the subject of Coutinho, I think it's important to remember he has only ever played at world class level 1 to 1.5(at most) seasons in his career, and that was under a particular system and a coach notable for getting the most out of his players (remember Kevin Großkreutz?). Expecting him to be WC us and especially to be WC right when he arrives is very optimistic. I'm posting his Goalimpact graph below to substantiate my point but you don't really need it to follow my argument. Just think of how opinions on his quality changed so rapidly in 2016/17 and then again in 2018/19. I think he's very much a work in progress with a lot of areas where he could improve, but unfortunately we only have him for one season.

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My verdict on watching Coutinho actually play so far is that he has a lot of style and relatively little substance. Notably, he hasn't been involved in a single big chance(as the shooter or the player making a key pass) once despite starting twice against relatively weak teams at home. He obviously can dribble very well, but he hasn't really shown the ability to read when to dribble or to consistently turn dribbling success into chance creation. He hasn't really offered a presence in to box. His creative passing is really not there. He mostly just tries to force very difficult passes through defenders over and over in his many attempts to play throughballs, and it just doesn't work. When he has all the time in the world, he can conduct buildup play decently well, but I'm less convinced at his ability to do so under heavy pressing. His most tangible offensive contribution so far is taking a lot of long shots, which is not something we should necessarily be doing even if it will eventually result in a really awesome-looking goal or two eventually. On the brighter side, Coutinho's pressing does seem to be excellent, as might be expected from a Klopp alumni.

Of course, Coutinho still is an excellent player, and I'm glad to have him on our team and think our team is stronger for it, but Bayern is a team full of really excellent players. It's still very early to judge him. However, as I suggested above, it's possible that his best form isn't too much of an improvement on his current form, so eventually we might have to wonder if it is worth starting him so often. After all, he has to play really well to justify keeping all three of Tolisso, Muller, and Goretzka out of the 10 slot.

The other side of the coin is Perisic, who has been simply outstanding despite having to accumulate to the team. Interestingly, his Goalimpact is actually very high, just a little under James Rodriguez, and I'm starting to see why. When I was scouting him right after he joined, he impressed me greatly, although it is hard to explain why. When I was scouting Coutinho, I was much less impressed because he always seemed to hang onto the ball too long. If I had to guess, I'll say that Perisic will probably be a big surprise to most Bayern fans this season while Coutinho will be somewhat disappointing.

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Re: [2019-09-18] Bayern Munich vs Crvena zvezda

Postby Achilles » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:00 am

With Kovac just waiting for Coutinho to sub him out, his clear preference on Muller and his cheeky smile on Thomas late goal(which was a great action) I don't see the "soft,sensitive" Coutinho surviving. If he is fit and all we have to give him some space to find his rhythm, let's say at least until late October with full games CL & Bundesliga.

Rotation on some players is very bad, you can't expect from such a player who needs to redefine his career into a new club to perform 5-stars from day one and if he doesn't to bench him and have him under the gun. Everybody in the world knows that in Munich in all forward positions "Muller can play there" so does Coutinho. Just let the guy build his game with consecutive games and let Muller on the bench or rotate him on CF/LW. We have a real chance here to sign permanently a true world class #10 let's not waste it again... Besides I prefer to wait until the break for Coutinho to perform rather waiting Muller 3rd season in a row to find his old self. If he doesn't deliver he goes back to his "dream club" simple as that...
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Re: [2019-09-18] Bayern Munich vs Crvena zvezda

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:12 am

The no look chip , courtesy of Thiago#6

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Re: [2019-09-18] Bayern Munich vs Crvena zvezda

Postby zozon » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:14 am

Manchu wrote:His most tangible offensive contribution so far is taking a lot of long shots, which is not something we should necessarily be doing even if it will eventually result in a really awesome-looking goal or two eventually.


Can you dare to explain what is wrong with long shots and why thats something that Bayern shouldnt do?
Any by long I mean 16-25m shots, not 30m+ shots.

Thats a pretty lame thing to brag about. It brings a new dimension to a team and forces the opposing defenders to come out of depth to prevent shots. It makes the other coach to think before the game "We are about to face a team that has some good shooters, we must prevent them from getting into shooting positions" and not just make him say "Shut down the wings and the fulllbacks overlapping".
Also - doing long shots prevents from being counter-attacked, so theres that also.

Its not like Bayern does 10+ long shots at a single game, so why does it bother you is beyond me.

I'd rather have Thiago, Tolisso or Coutinho pulling shots than having Coman and Gnabry tangling the ball on the goal line just because their instruction was to cross the ball in the penalty area, not pass it backwards to a central shooting position.

When we had Schweinj, Kroos, Ballack, van Bommel, Effenberg or other guys that were good shooters were you complaining also? Even Makaay did his own thing and no one complained.
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Re: [2019-09-18] Bayern Munich vs Crvena zvezda

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:47 am

Lol and I think that we rarely shoot from outside the box... we seem to get into the pen area or the small box to shoot...

Maybe there are some who want to see some 1K passes before we try ...

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Re: [2019-09-18] Bayern Munich vs Crvena zvezda

Postby #12 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:07 am

Achilles wrote:With Kovac just waiting for Coutinho to sub him out, his clear preference on Muller and his cheeky smile on Thomas late goal(which was a great action) I don't see the "soft,sensitive" Coutinho surviving. If he is fit and all we have to give him some space to find his rhythm, let's say at least until late October with full games CL & Bundesliga.

Rotation on some players is very bad, you can't expect from such a player who needs to redefine his career into a new club to perform 5-stars from day one and if he doesn't to bench him and have him under the gun. Everybody in the world knows that in Munich in all forward positions "Muller can play there" so does Coutinho. Just let the guy build his game with consecutive games and let Muller on the bench or rotate him on CF/LW. We have a real chance here to sign permanently a true world class #10 let's not waste it again... Besides I prefer to wait until the break for Coutinho to perform rather waiting Muller 3rd season in a row to find his old self. If he doesn't deliver he goes back to his "dream club" simple as that...


He played EIGHTY minutes with ZERO impact on the game... I want Kovac gone ASAP but to put this on him is BS...

Like someone else said: if Coutinho was half as good as people claim, he'd play for Barcelona!
Kovac OUT!!!
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Re: [2019-09-18] Bayern Munich vs Crvena zvezda

Postby Achilles » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:24 am

#12 wrote:He played EIGHTY minutes with ZERO impact on the game... I want Kovac gone ASAP but to put this on him is BS...
Like someone else said: if Coutinho was half as good as people claim, he'd play for Barcelona!

Nothing else to add, I was pretty clear, you took some words and wrote a simplistic answer.
I said that he maybe needs time and we can play him consecutive games until late October to catch up, if someone expects to perform from day one with 2 assists and 2 goals it's their problem, having him under the gun with #mustplayMuller ain't helping.

Why he'd play for Barcelona? You mention them as a high standard of football because nowadays they are a joke and they are being considered top-5 only because of past prime and Messi or you mention them because for their marvelous squad planning?? :lol: If we were Barcelona with all these transfer scandals, below average coach and almost 1 billion in transfers and getting ridiculed over and over again in CL you would destroy this forum with your shouting and crying...
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Re: [2019-09-18] Bayern Munich vs Crvena zvezda

Postby zozon » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:53 am

Who started this BULLSHIT "if he was good - he would be playing for Barcelona" ???

So playing for other European teams other than Barcelona makes you a shit player?
Players going out of top teams to other teams are shit players just because they left the previous team?

This forum has really become a shithole. Or rather - certain members made it that way.
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Re: [2019-09-18] Bayern Munich vs Crvena zvezda

Postby YlonenXabi » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:31 am

Fun fact: Coutinho was Kicker's man of the match :coffee:
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