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2020/21 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

How will Bayern do in the 2020/21 Champions League?

Only reach the Quarter-Finals
2
11%
Only reach the Semi-Finals
3
16%
Reach the Finals and Win
14
74%
Reach the Finals but Lose
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 19

Re: 2020/21 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby sherpthederp » Sun May 30, 2021 3:58 pm

Ottomeister87 wrote:The only player i would like at Bayern from yesterdays match? KdB or that Chelsea keeper, rest they can keep. Not even Kante i would want compared to Gore/Kimmich.

Kante is one of like 4-5 players right now who could walk into any starting 11 in Europe right now no questions asked. Long term it wouldn’t make sense but I would take him over Goretzka right now any day of the week, and I really like Goretzka
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Re: 2020/21 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Alexander » Sun May 30, 2021 4:00 pm

"rejecting/sending away two CL winners"

Alaba and Boateng? Would you have liked us to meet Alaba´s demands and extend Boateng?

"There is some major quality there"

No, but Hernandez,Sané,Upamecano,Musiala and Davies are. He is by no means perfect but not that bad.

"Costa is obviously better than Pulisic or Ziyech"

In my opinion Coman/Sané/Gnabry is the the first replacement at the wings and I believe they are no worse than Pulisic or Ziyech. Giroud is better than EMCM.
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Re: 2020/21 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Sun May 30, 2021 4:02 pm

Alexander wrote:"rejecting/sending away two CL winners"

Alaba and Boateng? Would you have liked us to meet Alaba´s demands and extend Boateng?

"There is some major quality there"

No, but Hernandez,Sané,Upamecano,Musiala and Davies are. He is by no means perfect but not that bad.

"Costa is obviously better than Pulisic or Ziyech"

In my opinion Coman/Sané/Gnabry is the the first replacement at the wings and I believe they are no worse than Pulisic or Ziyech. Giroud is better than EMCM.
No, Flick and Tuchel
But...
Alaba is understandable while Boateng is too harsh IMHO... Feels like we‘re saving just for the hell of it...
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
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Re: 2020/21 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Alexander » Sun May 30, 2021 4:05 pm

"No, Flick and Tuchel"

So it was Hasan that rejected Tuchel and sent Flick away?
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Re: 2020/21 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Alexander » Sun May 30, 2021 4:11 pm

T4L10N wrote:
Alexander wrote:
T4L10N wrote:Havertz won them the biggest prize there is in a club football, so how can you say its not success? Not to mention he has been brilliant for a month or 2. Before that he could have been considered a flop no doubt. Winning goal at the most important stage definitely defines you (I am not comparing players on a different positions and their impact on games). If I were to list the most important players of that Chelsea team it goes like that: 1. Kante, 2. Rudiger, 3. Havertz. 4. Mount.


"How can you say it is not success?"

By that standard it will always be a success if a player decides a big match. No matter what else he does. I think it is more complicated than that. But of course Havertz is the hero, not saying anything else. And he has been quite good for a while.


Definetely, big game players are always regarded as successful. Zidane (my favourite non-German player of all time) was a consistent big game player and thats why he is up there with Pele/Maradona. He was never consistent for any club he played in any single season though.

Eh, if we had more big game players rather than consistent ones, we would at least have 3-4 more CL. there are people who prefer players like Lewa with his 60 goal a season over players who score 3-4 but those are decisive in the latter stages of CL and I understand that. BTW: Gnabry for us is your big game player but his Corona spoiled this season for us.

that why I will always rate Zidane higher than Messi/Ronaldo. if you compare stats and stability Zidane shouldnt even be in the discussion but which player would you take in your most important match?


"if we had more big game players than consistent ones we would at least have 3-4 more CL"

Maybe, but there is a risk we wouldn´t get to the big matches without our consistent players. Do you agree?

"which player would you take in your most important match?"

Hard to say. Messi has scored in two CL finals. Ronaldo has decided a lot of big matches. To me it isn`t as easy as for you. Guess Götze is high on your list?
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Re: 2020/21 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby T4L10N » Sun May 30, 2021 4:41 pm

Alexander wrote:
"if we had more big game players than consistent ones we would at least have 3-4 more CL"

Maybe, but there is a risk we wouldn´t get to the big matches without our consistent players. Do you agree?

"which player would you take in your most important match?"

Hard to say. Messi has scored in two CL finals. Ronaldo has decided a lot of big matches. To me it isn`t as easy as for you. Guess Götze is high on your list?


Haha, I knew you would bring up Gotze. If not him Germany might still have its 3 stars so without him all this hard work was for nothing (I dont think he still can be mentioned on any list though). its the end product that really matters. I never care being the best among losers, only winning a thing actually matters.

As for Messi, Yes he scored in 2 CL finals I remember that but after that typical choker as much as it could be. Only thing people still talk is that Boateng episode as he was barely visible for entire decade in CL. And dont get me started about Argentina, if you think qualifying from group stage is that much of an extra effort then I will have to stop here. He's nowhere to be found in World cup playoffs and dont tell me he was needed for Argentina to proceed from the group stage (what a big of an achievement that is for a country like Argentina). People blame Higuan and Palacio for Messi's failure while it was actually their defense + Di Maria/Higuan who brought them to that final, while all Messi did was walking on the pitch (just as he was walking last year against us in that 8-2 match). I am not even talking about his "heroics" in Copa America. He is now established choker in the big stages. You can name only 3-4 big matches (including those 2 you mentioned, which still are much inferior than the WC playoffs for me)

As for Ronaldo, I cannot deny he got better CV even with weaker Portugal squad.
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Re: 2020/21 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Alexander » Sun May 30, 2021 4:53 pm

T4L10N wrote:
Alexander wrote:
"if we had more big game players than consistent ones we would at least have 3-4 more CL"

Maybe, but there is a risk we wouldn´t get to the big matches without our consistent players. Do you agree?

"which player would you take in your most important match?"

Hard to say. Messi has scored in two CL finals. Ronaldo has decided a lot of big matches. To me it isn`t as easy as for you. Guess Götze is high on your list?


Haha, I knew you would bring up Gotze. If not him Germany might still have its 3 stars so without him all this hard work was for nothing (I dont think he still can be mentioned on any list though). its the end product that really matters. I never care being the best among losers, only winning a thing actually matters.

As for Messi, Yes he scored in 2 CL finals I remember that but after that typical choker as much as it could be. Only thing people still talk is that Boateng episode as he was barely visible for entire decade in CL. And dont get me started about Argentina, if you think qualifying from group stage is that much of an extra effort then I will have to stop here. He's nowhere to be found in World cup playoffs and dont tell me he was needed for Argentina to proceed from the group stage (what a big of an achievement that is for a country like Argentina). People blame Higuan and Palacio for Messi's failure while it was actually their defense + Di Maria/Higuan who brought them to that final, while all Messi did was walking on the pitch (just as he was walking last year against us in that 8-2 match). I am not even talking about his "heroics" in Copa America. He is now established choker in the big stages. You can name only 3-4 big matches (including those 2 you mentioned, which still are much inferior than the WC playoffs for me)

As for Ronaldo, I cannot deny he got better CV even with weaker Portugal squad.


"i don`t he still can be mentioned on any list though"

How many big matches are required to be put on the list?

"a typical choker as much as it could be"

Is El Clasico a big match? The non finals CL matches? I say he has decided a lot more than 3-4 of them.
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Re: 2020/21 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby T4L10N » Sun May 30, 2021 5:44 pm

Alexander wrote:
"i don`t he still can be mentioned on any list though"

How many big matches are required to be put on the list?

"a typical choker as much as it could be"

Is El Clasico a big match? The non finals CL matches? I say he has decided a lot more than 3-4 of them.


El classico may be a big match for RM/Barca fans but it aint anything at least for me. its just 6 points out of possible 114 so who cares.

So here let me break down Messi's track record in playoff games in CL.

2020: Napoli (1/8) - meh, us (1/4) - big match - invisible
2019: Lyon (1/8) - meh, Man U (1/4) - meh, LFC - big match - I definitely give him 1st game, in 2nd one - invisible
2018: Chelsea (1/8) - meh, Roma (1/4) - meh and invisible in the 2nd one
2017: PSG (1/8) - Neymar bossed that game, Juventus (1/4) - invisible
2016: Arsenal (1/8) - meh, AM (1/4) - invisible
2015: City (1/8) - meh, PSG (1/4) - Neymar bossed both games, us (1/2) I give him first game no doubt, 2nd not so much relevant still Neymar bossed it, Final - still Neymar
2014: City (1/8) - meh, AM (1/4) - invisible
2013: Milan (1/8) - meh but still give him that for the sake of comeback, PSG (1/4) - meh but give that to him if you want, dont remember that game well, us (1/2) - not only invisible, but got himself "boateng"-ed by Ribery
2012: Leverkusen (1/8) - meh, Milan (1/4) - meh but scored 2 penalties as far as I remember. Chelsea (1/2) - invisible and missed penalty
2011: Arsenal (1/8) - meh, Shakhtar (1/4) - meh, RM (1/2) I give him that as well as final vs MU

I might be wrong for a game or 2 but overall I dont really see his consistent impact in big games.
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Re: 2020/21 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Alexander » Sun May 30, 2021 6:25 pm

T4L10N wrote:
Alexander wrote:
"i don`t he still can be mentioned on any list though"

How many big matches are required to be put on the list?

"a typical choker as much as it could be"

Is El Clasico a big match? The non finals CL matches? I say he has decided a lot more than 3-4 of them.


El classico may be a big match for RM/Barca fans but it aint anything at least for me. its just 6 points out of possible 114 so who cares.

So here let me break down Messi's track record in playoff games in CL.

2020: Napoli (1/8) - meh, us (1/4) - big match - invisible
2019: Lyon (1/8) - meh, Man U (1/4) - meh, LFC - big match - I definitely give him 1st game, in 2nd one - invisible
2018: Chelsea (1/8) - meh, Roma (1/4) - meh and invisible in the 2nd one
2017: PSG (1/8) - Neymar bossed that game, Juventus (1/4) - invisible
2016: Arsenal (1/8) - meh, AM (1/4) - invisible
2015: City (1/8) - meh, PSG (1/4) - Neymar bossed both games, us (1/2) I give him first game no doubt, 2nd not so much relevant still Neymar bossed it, Final - still Neymar
2014: City (1/8) - meh, AM (1/4) - invisible
2013: Milan (1/8) - meh but still give him that for the sake of comeback, PSG (1/4) - meh but give that to him if you want, dont remember that game well, us (1/2) - not only invisible, but got himself "boateng"-ed by Ribery
2012: Leverkusen (1/8) - meh, Milan (1/4) - meh but scored 2 penalties as far as I remember. Chelsea (1/2) - invisible and missed penalty
2011: Arsenal (1/8) - meh, Shakhtar (1/4) - meh, RM (1/2) I give him that as well as final vs MU

I might be wrong for a game or 2 but overall I dont really see his consistent impact in big games.


We have to agree to disagree :) .
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Re: 2020/21 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sun May 30, 2021 6:34 pm

T4L10N wrote:
Alexander wrote:
"i don`t he still can be mentioned on any list though"

How many big matches are required to be put on the list?

"a typical choker as much as it could be"

Is El Clasico a big match? The non finals CL matches? I say he has decided a lot more than 3-4 of them.


El classico may be a big match for RM/Barca fans but it aint anything at least for me. its just 6 points out of possible 114 so who cares.

So here let me break down Messi's track record in playoff games in CL.

2020: Napoli (1/8) - meh, us (1/4) - big match - invisible
2019: Lyon (1/8) - meh, Man U (1/4) - meh, LFC - big match - I definitely give him 1st game, in 2nd one - invisible
2018: Chelsea (1/8) - meh, Roma (1/4) - meh and invisible in the 2nd one
2017: PSG (1/8) - Neymar bossed that game, Juventus (1/4) - invisible
2016: Arsenal (1/8) - meh, AM (1/4) - invisible
2015: City (1/8) - meh, PSG (1/4) - Neymar bossed both games, us (1/2) I give him first game no doubt, 2nd not so much relevant still Neymar bossed it, Final - still Neymar
2014: City (1/8) - meh, AM (1/4) - invisible
2013: Milan (1/8) - meh but still give him that for the sake of comeback, PSG (1/4) - meh but give that to him if you want, dont remember that game well, us (1/2) - not only invisible, but got himself "boateng"-ed by Ribery
2012: Leverkusen (1/8) - meh, Milan (1/4) - meh but scored 2 penalties as far as I remember. Chelsea (1/2) - invisible and missed penalty
2011: Arsenal (1/8) - meh, Shakhtar (1/4) - meh, RM (1/2) I give him that as well as final vs MU

I might be wrong for a game or 2 but overall I dont really see his consistent impact in big games.
You can have whatever opinion you want, but the Spanish Clásico is the second biggest game in the football season after the CL final
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Re: 2020/21 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby T4L10N » Sun May 30, 2021 7:03 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:You can have whatever opinion you want, but the Spanish Clásico is the second biggest game in the football season after the CL final


Yeah, I've heard it overshadows even WC final :D

PS. Good for you as they gonna play 45 Classicos once they launch ESL.

PPS. and Barca is a second best team in the world history :(
Last edited by T4L10N on Sun May 30, 2021 7:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2020/21 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Sun May 30, 2021 7:04 pm

Alexander wrote:"No, Flick and Tuchel"

So it was Hasan that rejected Tuchel and sent Flick away?
For all we know, yes
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
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Re: 2020/21 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby T4L10N » Sun May 30, 2021 7:05 pm

Alexander wrote:
We have to agree to disagree :) .


Yeah, definitely, I just wanted to bring up my points and would like to listen to yours as well, Each and every person is entitled to have his/her views.
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Re: 2020/21 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Alexander » Sun May 30, 2021 7:15 pm

"For all we know, yes"

I must have missed how Hasan rejected Tuchel. Can you tell me what happened? Did he make that decision without Hoeness and Rummenigge approving?
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Re: 2020/21 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Sun May 30, 2021 7:21 pm

Alexander wrote:"For all we know, yes"

I must have missed how Hasan rejected Tuchel. Can you tell me what happened? Did he make that decision without Hoeness and Rummenigge approving?
So let me get this straight: when something good happens, it‘s thanks to Hasan the great, ruler of the Säbener Street outhouse, yet when it’s bad it’s at least on several shoulders? For all the "bossman"-ship the yellow press pushes?


Salihamidzic publicly stated, that HE proposed Kovac to the board in one of his famous PowerPoint shitshows, as his NUMBER ONE choice!

And we all know why Flick left!

But I‘m sure, once Nagelsmann (whom he contacted in February already!) strikes out, we‘ll find mew excuses for the likeable Hasan because one out of five transfers turned out ok...
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
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