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2019/20 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

Re: 2019/20 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby r10 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:06 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:What's the point?
If teams receive 20M EUR for each leg, that monies would help this as you call them "lesser teams" to improve very quickly (buying players, coaching, stadiums, training bases). So the rich are never to allow that, for them (ruling corrupted UEFA with all their Blatters and Platinis) let rich be richer and poor be poorer.
Actually, nowadays Central and Eastern Europe countries finance Western European ligues through TV rights for CL (and Europa Ligue to some extend) knock-out stages rights.

PS. How about Bayern playing Rostov, Porto and Bate Borisov?
Last edited by r10 on Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2019/20 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby America USA » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:12 pm

#12 wrote:
1.) I did... I don’t need to read again... But these are the rules and this is the competition... I don’t think every law necessarily makes sense, heck, you’re American, you could probably write a book about it... Doesn’t mean I'm not following it...

2.) Yes we should have... It is not the national champions cup, it’s the league crowning the champions of Europe...

And I’m expressing my opinion on the rules. I think they are stupid. The 2019 UCL final was a disgrace given how those two teams have never even won the PL.

IMO the rules should be changed to Top 3 teams from England, France, Germany, Italy and Spain and then those three teams should’ve won their league title in the last 10-15 years at least once.

Otherwise the name “Champions” League is a bloody misnomer
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Re: 2019/20 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:15 pm

America USA wrote:
#12 wrote:
1.) I did... I don’t need to read again... But these are the rules and this is the competition... I don’t think every law necessarily makes sense, heck, you’re American, you could probably write a book about it... Doesn’t mean I'm not following it...

2.) Yes we should have... It is not the national champions cup, it’s the league crowning the champions of Europe...

And I’m expressing my opinion on the rules. I think they are stupid. The 2019 UCL final was a disgrace given how those two teams have never even won the PL.

IMO the rules should be changed to Top 3 teams from England, France, Germany, Italy and Spain and then those three teams should’ve won their league title in the last 10-15 years at least once.

Otherwise the name “Champions” League is a bloody misnomer
your proposition doesn’t hold true for at least two of the leagues you mentioned... Also, it was in the hands of a lot of other teams to stop them... We for example were busy shitting our pants - and at home - as usual except kicking them out...
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Re: 2019/20 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby America USA » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:18 pm

#12 wrote:
America USA wrote:
#12 wrote:
1.) I did... I don’t need to read again... But these are the rules and this is the competition... I don’t think every law necessarily makes sense, heck, you’re American, you could probably write a book about it... Doesn’t mean I'm not following it...

2.) Yes we should have... It is not the national champions cup, it’s the league crowning the champions of Europe...

And I’m expressing my opinion on the rules. I think they are stupid. The 2019 UCL final was a disgrace given how those two teams have never even won the PL.

IMO the rules should be changed to Top 3 teams from England, France, Germany, Italy and Spain and then those three teams should’ve won their league title in the last 10-15 years at least once.

Otherwise the name “Champions” League is a bloody misnomer
your proposition doesn’t hold true for at least two of the leagues you mentioned... Also, it was in the hands of a lot of other teams to stop them... We for example were busy shitting our pants - and at home - as usual except kicking them out...


Which two leagues are they?

Also It’s theoretically irrelevant whether it was in Ajax or Bayern’s hands to stop that disgraceful final. In principle alone a 4th placed team like Liverpool shouldn’t have been permitted into a so called “Champions” tournament and neither should’ve Tottenham who have not won their national league in more than half a century!
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Re: 2019/20 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:43 pm

Your very own Bundesliga and the Serie A if I'm not mistaken... Also obviously the PL last year as you so clearly concluded several times already
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Re: 2019/20 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby America USA » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:53 pm

#12 wrote:Your very own Bundesliga and the Serie A if I'm not mistaken... Also obviously the PL last year as you so clearly concluded several times already

Not sure where you’re going but based on what I’m proposing:
BL: Bayern and Dortmund would qualify because Dortmund have won the league in the last 15 years
PL: Man City. You could forfeit Tottenham’s place for Chelsea.
Serie A: You could have Atlanta forfeit for Inter.

And for teams like Leipzig, Liverpool and Napoli you could have them in a qualification round/playoff against the Champions of countries like Belgium, Hungary, Romania, Sweden, etc.
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Re: 2019/20 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:59 pm

America USA wrote:
#12 wrote:Your very own Bundesliga and the Serie A if I'm not mistaken... Also obviously the PL last year as you so clearly concluded several times already

Not sure where you’re going but based on what I’m proposing:
BL: Bayern and Dortmund would qualify because Dortmund have won the league in the last 15 years
PL: Man City. You could forfeit Tottenham’s place for Chelsea.
Serie A: You could have Atlanta forfeit for Inter.

And for teams like Leipzig, Liverpool and Napoli you could have them in a qualification round/playoff against the Champions of countries like Belgium, Hungary, Romania, Sweden, etc.


Yes... But neither Leverkusen nor Leipzig have... Neither have Hoffenheim, Gladbach or Schalke or any of the recent CL participants...
And forfeiting was not included in your proposition - you said top3
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Re: 2019/20 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby America USA » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:17 pm

#12 wrote:
America USA wrote:
#12 wrote:Your very own Bundesliga and the Serie A if I'm not mistaken... Also obviously the PL last year as you so clearly concluded several times already

Not sure where you’re going but based on what I’m proposing:
BL: Bayern and Dortmund would qualify because Dortmund have won the league in the last 15 years
PL: Man City. You could forfeit Tottenham’s place for Chelsea.
Serie A: You could have Atlanta forfeit for Inter.

And for teams like Leipzig, Liverpool and Napoli you could have them in a qualification round/playoff against the Champions of countries like Belgium, Hungary, Romania, Sweden, etc.


Yes... But neither Leverkusen nor Leipzig have... Neither have Hoffenheim, Gladbach or Schalke or any of the recent CL participants...
And forfeiting was not included in your proposition - you said top3

Ok so here’s what I want to ideally see:

-> England/France/Germany/Italy/Spain: Top Three qualify however if one or more of the teams in the top three have not won their domestic league in the last 15 years (eg. Liverpool) then their spot goes to another team in the Top 5 who have won the league in the last 15 years (eg. Chelsea or Manchester United). However if both of these criterion cannot be met (eg. Schalke, Leverkusen, Leipzig and Hoffenheim) then the Top 3 team who have not won their National league in 15 years go up in a playoff against the National Champions of a weaker league/smaller nations like Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Scotland, Switzerland, Poland, Belarus, etc.

-> Champions of next ten strongest leagues after the Top 5 such as Netherlands, Portugal, Russia, Greece, Austria, Belgium, Turkey, Ukraine, Croatia and Sweden, qualify automatically.

-> The Champions of the remaining countries such as Ireland, Israel, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Cyprus, Malta, Finland, etc. face off in qualifications for the remaining spots.

^ This type of qualification would guarantee that we’d have 10-15 teams from the Top five leagues while also giving the Champions of the smaller nations a chance to compete. The draw for the group stages would be such that no one group shall contain three teams from the Top 5 leagues to ensure that the stronger teams can qualify for the Knockouts while also giving enough room for the likes of Benfica, Ajax, Celtic and Zagreb to spring an upset.

I know this is a pipe dream and the plutocrats would never allow this but such a revised format would be the best to ensure healthy competition and give a fair chance to all the European nations.
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Re: 2019/20 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Jorge » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:24 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:
r10 wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote:As it should it be.
No, it sholudn't. There should be knock-out stages for all the countries' champions from beginning, like in the past (but with as more as twice number of countries).

What's the point? I'd rather Bayern play the second or third best team in England or Spain than some Romanian league winner.


Be careful with what you say, not long ago (1980's) Steaua București was a European Powerhouse and a lot of fun to watch, but I get the idea.
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Re: 2019/20 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Jorge » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:32 pm

America USA wrote:

BTW, before money came to spoil the day I think Leeds were English champions before the PL era and Saint-Etienne were the best team in Ligue 1


Or look at Nottingham Forest crowned European Champions twice in the late 70's but have and a permanent animator of the English Football but turned into a nobody in recent times.

There is something romantic about clubs like Notts Forest being in Europe instead of Arab Oil owned clubs: The Forest founded in 1865 is the oldest professional football club in the world.
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Re: 2019/20 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:02 pm

America USA wrote:
#12 wrote:
America USA wrote:[quote="#12"]Your very own Bundesliga and the Serie A if I'm not mistaken... Also obviously the PL last year as you so clearly concluded several times already

Not sure where you’re going but based on what I’m proposing:
BL: Bayern and Dortmund would qualify because Dortmund have won the league in the last 15 years
PL: Man City. You could forfeit Tottenham’s place for Chelsea.
Serie A: You could have Atlanta forfeit for Inter.

And for teams like Leipzig, Liverpool and Napoli you could have them in a qualification round/playoff against the Champions of countries like Belgium, Hungary, Romania, Sweden, etc.


Yes... But neither Leverkusen nor Leipzig have... Neither have Hoffenheim, Gladbach or Schalke or any of the recent CL participants...
And forfeiting was not included in your proposition - you said top3

Ok so here’s what I want to ideally see:

-> England/France/Germany/Italy/Spain: Top Three qualify however if one or more of the teams in the top three have not won their domestic league in the last 15 years (eg. Liverpool) then their spot goes to another team in the Top 5 who have won the league in the last 15 years (eg. Chelsea or Manchester United). However if both of these criterion cannot be met (eg. Schalke, Leverkusen, Leipzig and Hoffenheim) then the Top 3 team who have not won their National league in 15 years go up in a playoff against the National Champions of a weaker league/smaller nations like Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Scotland, Switzerland, Poland, Belarus, etc.

-> Champions of next ten strongest leagues after the Top 5 such as Netherlands, Portugal, Russia, Greece, Austria, Belgium, Turkey, Ukraine, Croatia and Sweden, qualify automatically.

-> The Champions of the remaining countries such as Ireland, Israel, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Cyprus, Malta, Finland, etc. face off in qualifications for the remaining spots.

^ This type of qualification would guarantee that we’d have 10-15 teams from the Top five leagues while also giving the Champions of the smaller nations a chance to compete. The draw for the group stages would be such that no one group shall contain three teams from the Top 5 leagues to ensure that the stronger teams can qualify for the Knockouts while also giving enough room for the likes of Benfica, Ajax, Celtic and Zagreb to spring an upset.

I know this is a pipe dream and the plutocrats would never allow this but such a revised format would be the best to ensure healthy competition and give a fair chance to all the European nations.[/quote]

I think you’re pretty hypocritical here
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Re: 2019/20 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby America USA » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:07 pm

How? Please refrain from making unsubstantiated claims sans evidence.
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Re: 2019/20 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:37 pm

You talk about the rich ones excluding others yet you want to limit the CL to the biggest teams in their respective countries... Thought it was pretty much evident without me pointing it out...
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Re: 2019/20 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby America USA » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:52 pm

Sorry it’s not hypocritical but an argument based on meritocracy. I’m limiting the Premier competition in club football namely the “Champions” League to the actual Champions of the respective nations. This competition must be for successful teams only and not for losers like Tottenham and Napoli who haven’t won their league since the days of black and white TV.

If clubs who haven’t won their league in decades want to play in the UCL then all they gotta do is win their National league! [something that Liverpool is finally on the verge of achieving]

There is another competition for the not so big teams or the wannabe “big” clubs and that’s played on Thursdays. For the record I’m ok with EL winners qualifying for the UCL because at least they are winners and not losers who sneak in through the “Top 4” path.
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Re: 2019/20 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:30 am

America USA wrote:Sorry it’s not hypocritical but an argument based on meritocracy. I’m limiting the Premier competition in club football namely the “Champions” League to the actual Champions of the respective nations. This competition must be for successful teams only and not for losers like Tottenham and Napoli who haven’t won their league since the days of black and white TV.

If clubs who haven’t won their league in decades want to play in the UCL then all they gotta do is win their National league! [something that Liverpool is finally on the verge of achieving]

There is another competition for the not so big teams or the wannabe “big” clubs and that’s played on Thursdays. For the record I’m ok with EL winners qualifying for the UCL because at least they are winners and not losers who sneak in through the “Top 4” path.

I hate to side bar but I bet your not to happy the Cowboys(or someone from the NFC East) will make the playoffs with a record below .500. :P
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