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2018/19 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

Re: 2018/19 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby sherpthederp » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:25 pm

shpati_L1 wrote:
Borusse wrote:I hate handball rules in football to be honest, I think they should do something about it, I have no idea what though.

But too often I see penalties given for handballs that just weren't intentional, as a defender you can't constantly be thinking what to do with your hands and hide them, sometimes you will get hit in the hand and you're left at the mercy of the ref, he needs to decide what were your intentions and often just makes a call which another ref wouldn't make. It sucks, the rules should be more clear than that.

This is very true.

It’s a tough situation to deal with and it seems like the only way to make it more objective is to make any contact with the arm a penalty regardless of awareness or intent. It would be very harsh on defenders, but I can’t think of any other way to make it clear and I don’t know if that’s any better than the uncertainty we have now
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Re: 2018/19 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:26 pm

sherpthederp wrote:
shpati_L1 wrote:
Borusse wrote:I hate handball rules in football to be honest, I think they should do something about it, I have no idea what though.

But too often I see penalties given for handballs that just weren't intentional, as a defender you can't constantly be thinking what to do with your hands and hide them, sometimes you will get hit in the hand and you're left at the mercy of the ref, he needs to decide what were your intentions and often just makes a call which another ref wouldn't make. It sucks, the rules should be more clear than that.

This is very true.

It’s a tough situation to deal with and it seems like the only way to make it more objective is to make any contact with the arm a penalty regardless of awareness or intent. It would be very harsh on defenders, but I can’t think of any other way to make it clear.


Deliberate handballs only... Call on VAR... Gets you a real penalty 95% of times, maybe you miss one or two... Cleverness...
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Re: 2018/19 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Borusse » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:27 pm

Fénix wrote:
Borusse wrote:I hate handball rules in football to be honest, I think they should do something about it, I have no idea what though.

But too often I see penalties given for handballs that just weren't intentional, as a defender you can't constantly be thinking what to do with your hands and hide them, sometimes you will get hit in the hand and you're left at the mercy of the ref, he needs to decide what were your intentions and often just makes a call which another ref wouldn't make. It sucks, the rules should be more clear than that.

No, they can't be better and that's just like it is. It's a part of football and it has always been. New rules about handball are going to be even worse than this now regardless of one's intention to play or not.

I still have a picture in my head from the 2nd leg of Round of 16 from 2005/2006 at Allianz Arena when Bayern's Valerien Ismaël was holding his whole arm on the chest and stomach yet referee didn't even think for a second to point on the white spot and award penalty for AC Milan.
Back then almost every handball in the 16m box was a clear penalty, but in the last 8 years a lot of things have changed and I think there's no more to change.

It has always been about how lucky you are (not) to play or get hit with the ball in your hand and arm.


Why would you assume new rules would be worse? Every improvement in any area of life comes with changing something, I don't understand this kind of thinking. If someone figures it out and finds an interesting solution then it should be tried. Otherwise lets revert back to no-offside and keeper being able to catch a ball in his hands after a pass from his defender.
Last edited by Borusse on Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2018/19 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:27 pm

Pen for fcp
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Re: 2018/19 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Tikoubaouine » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:28 pm

"first choice" Tuchel out of the cup and the CL against Guignamp and ManU B. :coffee:
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Re: 2018/19 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:31 pm

Meanwhile, Porto take the lead
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Re: 2018/19 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:31 pm

Meanwhile, Porto take the lead
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Re: 2018/19 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Borusse » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:31 pm

sherpthederp wrote:
shpati_L1 wrote:
Borusse wrote:I hate handball rules in football to be honest, I think they should do something about it, I have no idea what though.

But too often I see penalties given for handballs that just weren't intentional, as a defender you can't constantly be thinking what to do with your hands and hide them, sometimes you will get hit in the hand and you're left at the mercy of the ref, he needs to decide what were your intentions and often just makes a call which another ref wouldn't make. It sucks, the rules should be more clear than that.

This is very true.

It’s a tough situation to deal with and it seems like the only way to make it more objective is to make any contact with the arm a penalty regardless of awareness or intent. It would be very harsh on defenders, but I can’t think of any other way to make it clear and I don’t know if that’s any better than the uncertainty we have now


Nah that wouldn't work either, it would make the game too random, with lots of silly penalties and maybe even players deliberately trying to shoot at defenders' hands.

It's a difficult issue and I don't pretend to have a solution but they should surely work on solving that.
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Re: 2018/19 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby aterford » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:33 pm

The trouble is that I'm just not sure there's a clear solution.
Of course as the laws are written a handball must be given if a player "handles the ball deliberately" and consequently it's been pretty much unanimously accepted that a defender making his body bigger by putting his arms in an 'unnatural position' is enough to be considered 'deliberate'. Okay. But the "unnatural position" leaves a lot of grey area, a lot of room for interpretation, so what's there to do? I'm not sure. It's awfully difficult, of course, to attempt to legislate intent or motive to a player's arm positioning.

Essentially, it seems like if we want things to be 100% clear, then we should almost never give a call for a handball, or the rule should be clarified so that intent is removed from the equation (as I'm not sure there's any way to objectively ascertain a player's intent - in this case, you'd end up with many more handballs given. And I'm not sure either result is particularly desirable.

So...I'm generally in agreement: the rule as it's written (and as it's universally interpreted) leaves too much in the hands of the referee, too much room for interpretation, but I'm not sure there's a clear 'middle ground' solution.
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Re: 2018/19 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby America USA » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:35 pm

If Ajax draw Manchester United next and eliminate them too that would be some fairytale level giant killing :mrgreen:
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Re: 2018/19 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Bentonomo » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:36 pm

definitely football seems to be more fair with the Var.
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Re: 2018/19 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Borusse » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:36 pm

#12 wrote:
sherpthederp wrote:
shpati_L1 wrote:It’s a tough situation to deal with and it seems like the only way to make it more objective is to make any contact with the arm a penalty regardless of awareness or intent. It would be very harsh on defenders, but I can’t think of any other way to make it clear.


Deliberate handballs only... Call on VAR... Gets you a real penalty 95% of times, maybe you miss one or two... Cleverness...


Yeah, I would actually prefer that extreme than the other way around with every handball being given. Handball only in clear cases and giving defenders the benefit of the doubt.
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Re: 2018/19 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:38 pm

I really dislike fcp... but whatever...
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Re: 2018/19 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Machiavellico » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:44 pm

Yes, Tuchel, the great mastermind that somehow managed to lose to United’s second team, having Mbappe up front. Glad we dodged this bullet. Granted, we might have been shot with an even bigger one, but let’s judge Kovac after the second leg. Because some of you were already choosing UCL favourites after the first matches, saying PSG is one of the top teams this year. As we can see, there is no such thing as a clear favourite this year

I love the unpredictability. I love it so much. This isn’t supposed to be math
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Re: 2018/19 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby America USA » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:45 pm

Bentonomo wrote:definitely football seems to be more fair with the Var.

Taking this post from RAWK regarding VAR
Nobody, nobody on the pitch was claiming that as handball. Nobody. VAR ref slows it right down sees a minor movement of the arm to the ball and then asks the ref to look at it. We saw in the World Cup that the moment the ref is asked to look at it again he’s got it in his head that he’s made a mistake (otherwise they wouldn’t be asking him to take another look) he sees the slowed down version as well, and gives it.

At no point did they run that at anything close to full speed to see whether he reacted by moving his arm. It supposed to be clear and obvious and there was enough doubt there as to whether that was anyway intentional, or even whether he “made himself bigger”. It was marginal. Had the ref on the field given it then it’s a different story, but he’s overturned his original decision of a corner based on a slo-mo replay. I don’t think that’s right.


Spot on IMO
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