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[2007-04-21] VfB Stuttgart vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the German Bundesliga matches.
 

Who's going to win the match between Stuttgart & Bayern?

A) Bayern will win
9
90%
B) It'll end in a draw
1
10%
C) Stuttgart will win
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 10

Postby MUTU » Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:18 pm

SNAKE wrote:Also you really think that Rooney is better than any of our players????


Do you HONESTLY think that if Bayern bought Rooney he wouldn't be a key player in our squad? He is hands down better than our attackers, at least in my opinion. I don't like him as a person, and even more because he plays for England and Manchester United, but he is much much better to Makaay, Podolski, Pizarro and Santa Cruz. Virtually any neutral football supporter will agree with me.

SNAKE wrote:Makaay is almost as good as Elber (maybe more or less) there is not much difference.


Makaay is only ok for scoring against weak teams. Elber was way more prolific against top clubs. Makaay just vanishes from the game against good teams.

In 2003/2004 he scored 1 goal against Real Madrid (from 2 matches against Real Madrid)
In 2004/2005 he didn't score a goal against top teams (from 2 matches against Juventus, 1 against Arsenal and 1 against Chelsea)
In 2005/2006 he didn't score a goal against top teams (from 2 matches against Juventus and 2 matches against Milan)
In 2006/2007 he scored 1 goal against Inter and one goal against Real Madrid (from 2 matches against Inter, 2 matches against Real Madrid and 2 matches against Milan)

His ratio against top teams thus stands at 3 goals from 16 matches. Is that good enough?
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Postby SNAKE » Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:10 pm

MUTU wrote:Do you HONESTLY think that if Bayern bought Rooney he wouldn't be a key player in our squad? He is hands down better than our attackers, at least in my opinion. I don't like him as a person, and even more because he plays for England and Manchester United, but he is much much better to Makaay, Podolski, Pizarro and Santa Cruz. Virtually any neutral football supporter will agree with me.


1st why the hell would Bayern ever want to sign an overrated pile of trash like Rooney? 2nd him being better than our attackers is YOUR opinion(like you stated) 3rd I dont like him at all, neither as a person, or as a player doesnt matter which club he plays for. He may be a little good but not like the spicegirl Beckham said "the next Pele" cmon. Makaay is a better goalscorer than he will ever be (its not a baised comment If you compare Makaay to Villa for example I would say Villa), but Rooney is WAAAAAAAAAYYYY overrated he looks good because of players like C.Ronaldo and Giggs always feeding so that he scores tap-ins RVN style. Virtually any ENGLISH footballer fan would agree with you.


Makaay is only ok for scoring against weak teams. Elber was way more prolific against top clubs. Makaay just vanishes from the game against good teams.

In 2003/2004 he scored 1 goal against Real Madrid (from 2 matches against Real Madrid)
In 2004/2005 he didn't score a goal against top teams (from 2 matches against Juventus, 1 against Arsenal and 1 against Chelsea)
In 2005/2006 he didn't score a goal against top teams (from 2 matches against Juventus and 2 matches against Milan)
In 2006/2007 he scored 1 goal against Inter and one goal against Real Madrid (from 2 matches against Inter, 2 matches against Real Madrid and 2 matches against Milan)

His ratio against top teams thus stands at 3 goals from 16 matches. Is that good enough?


Weak teams? Hell even Henry disappeared when he played Barcelona IN THE CL FINAL, David Villa didnt appear against Chelsea, Elber also did a few( only a few) games not scoring a goal against top clubs like Man Utd or Real. Makaay is ALWAYS very closely marked and as you can see mainly only the Italians do that very well (because of that special "Marka Uomo"(dunno how to spell it) but he did score good goals like against Celtic in his 1st season that gave us a winner(the 1st time volley shot) and now scored the fastest ever goal in CL History. Both Elber and Makaay would have been great partners, it was a BIG mistake to sell him to Lyon. But the ONLY best strikers are Shevchenko and Eto'o I highly doubt that you can find strikers like these, great quality, good scoring records. I still find that Makaay is a TOP quality striker much better than I expected.

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Postby Paddy » Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:23 pm

ummm...rooney is a player that doesn´t just score...he´s not yourr typical attacker....he helps in defence he fights and he passes the ball...hes better than makaay and hes better than pizarro and poldi.....sure he may be a bit overrated but so is podolski...
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Postby SNAKE » Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:57 pm

Paddy wrote:ummm...rooney is a player that doesn´t just score.../quote]
He rarely scores....

he´s not yourr typical attacker....he helps in defence he fights and he passes the ball...


So does Drogba and Pizarro so whats your point?

hes better than makaay and hes better than pizarro and poldi.....sure he may be a bit overrated but so is podolski...


I bet that your "opinion" is that EVERY other player in the world is better than a Bayern player, you consider Rooney to be the next Pele??? like tha spicegirl said? If this whole arguement was like Eto'o, Villa or Shevchenko are better than Makaay, then YES I WOULD AGREE, but Rooney?????? Dont make me barf. Rooney didnt even score against Andorra or Israel. Podolski isnt overrated, not as much as Rooney, if you saw him with Germany you wouldnt state that.

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Postby diegis » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:33 pm

SNAKE wrote:So does monkeyboy Drogba and Pizarro so whats your point?

omg SNAKE didnt know you are racistImage






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SNAKE wrote:Rooney didnt even score against Andorra or Israel. Podolski isnt overrated, not as much as Rooney, if you saw him with Germany you wouldnt state that.

both Rooney and Podolski are s**t this season
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Postby Paddy » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:03 pm

SNAKE wrote:
Paddy wrote:ummm...rooney is a player that doesn´t just score.../quote]
He rarely scores....

he´s not yourr typical attacker....he helps in defence he fights and he passes the ball...


So does Drogba and Pizarro so whats your point?

hes better than makaay and hes better than pizarro and poldi.....sure he may be a bit overrated but so is podolski...


I bet that your "opinion" is that EVERY other player in the world is better than a Bayern player, you consider Rooney to be the next Pele??? like tha spicegirl said? If this whole arguement was like Eto'o, Villa or Shevchenko are better than Makaay, then YES I WOULD AGREE, but Rooney?????? Dont make me barf. Rooney didnt even score against Andorra or Israel. Podolski isnt overrated, not as much as Rooney, if you saw him with Germany you wouldnt state that.

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Let me ask you this...When did Poldi play well against big team? not once this season and neither did he did something special at WC against bigger teams ( Sweden are average at best)....And yes he is overrated....he is suppose to be the best young player that germany has....well...why? he scored 15 goals at most this and last season combine where Rooney scored almost 30 goals in the last 2 seasons in EPL. And its harder to score in EPL than in Bundesliga...he scored 13 goals this season... 21 goals this season in all competitions.... ummm....he is far better than poldi....and well id rather have rooney in bayern than makaay too.
And yes any Man utd first team player is better than any bayerns.....Bayern, themself prove it...

And Rooney the next Pele?? Where did I even hint that? I don´t like to compare players who played ages ago to todays players cause the game is much more competitive and diffrent all around...
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Postby tracylynn » Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:14 pm

Is Podolski overrated? I would yes he is, at least this season. When there are many expectations thrown upon a player who is labeled to be the next someone and then they don't meet those expectation people tend to say that they are overrated. IMO, this is what has happened to Podolski this season. Plus, I don't think comparing players from one league to another is fair because each league is different in their style of plays.

Anyway, this topic has gone too far after the racists comments that have been made. Please refrain from calling anyone anything derogatory. Thank you.
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Postby walter » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:15 am

I think it is still too early to judge Poldi. Sometimes when he does poorly (frequently this season), I kinda want to jump to the conclusion that he is indeed overrated and he sucks, but he is still young and at his first season in a big club. Nobody can deny that he has great vision (at least two beautiful passes this season to Makaay that ended up in goals still linger in my head ), great pace (but I don't see him taking much advantage of it this season), and a great left shot.
I think he is probably having confidence problems and also, lets face it, Bayern has been playing collectively poorly this season and I get the impression that the necessary fighting spirit is not there. Schweinsteiger ain't doing so good either. People are expecting that they (poldi and schweini) are going to evolve into the next top players soon and certainly German players are generally late bloomers. We should keep in mind that they are prospects and not "superstars", they have the talent but they need to mature as football players.
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Postby SNAKE » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:04 am

Let me ask you this...When did Poldi play well against big team? not once this season and neither did he did something special at WC against bigger teams ( Sweden are average at best)....And yes he is overrated....he is suppose to be the best young player that germany has....well...why? he scored 15 goals at most this and last season combine where Rooney scored almost 30 goals in the last 2 seasons in EPL. And its harder to score in EPL than in Bundesliga...he scored 13 goals this season... 21 goals this season in all competitions.... ummm....he is far better than poldi....and well id rather have rooney in bayern than makaay too.
And yes any Man utd first team player is better than any bayerns.....Bayern, themself prove it...

And Rooney the next Pele?? Where did I even hint that? I don´t like to compare players who played ages ago to todays players cause the game is much more competitive and diffrent all around...


Well Poldi IS infact a huge talent I wouldnt jump to conclusions that he is overrated or anythin, he plays well (not as much as expected) but neither did Ballack in his 1st season at Bayern, Sheva who is a far better striker overall is ALSO having problems in Chelsea, so every player goes to that phase that needs to settle, I beleive that the only Bayern player( bought from the trasnfer list) lately to make an impression in his 1st season I think its Makaay, maybe Mutu can agree with me about his stats that he scored 23 goals in 32 league appearances only(not counting Champions league) in his 1st season at Olympiastadion. Back to Poldi, He did very well in his 1st ever WC, scored good goals playing very well, creating chances, causing hell lot of problems to the opponents defense(Argentina, Italy and Portugal), I think you should check well against which clubs Rooney scores, He doesnt score against Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal or any other top clubs, the last goal he scored was against a Sheffield United..........and I happend to see the goals aswell (1 from Carrick) and Rooney tap-in(RVN Style) after a Giggs cross. Whats so hard to score in EPL? If Kalou and Mikel, J.Park can score in Epl than anyone can score, make no mistake that the only difference between EPL and the Bundesliga is the pace of the game, which we can see Ballack is having problems with that but Bundesliga is more of a physical game, who relay on very good fitness and good strenght. Rooney at Bayern??..ugh that little comment made me sick, I rather be hung than see him in a Bayern shirt and to make matters worse he is better than 1 of the best strikers in europe.........(Im gonna need therapy for this). Man Utd 1st team better than ALL of Bayern?? cmon I know that Bayern arent doing well lately but arent you going a tiny bit hard on the team with heavy critics? We just lost our playermaker and 2 of our best wingers who we invested alot on them cant expect to win the Treble after goin through that and you want to compare Man Utd with Bayern? OK then lets play..

GK) Edwin Van Der Sar - Oliver Kahn, Both experience, but Van Der Sar is mainly a huge flop during his time at Juve and also doing a lot if silly errors this season at Man Utd. While Kahn is an icon to the team and a pure leader, saved Bayern most of the time and causing a few headaches in the process aswell. But clearly that Kahn is better.

Def) Gary Neville - Willy Sagnol, Both are well experience both are good captains but Sagnol has a better quality of crosses, but Gary is determind in one on one challanges, overall both are top quality not much difference between them.
Rio Ferdinand - Lucio, Rio is a very tall defender good in the Air but sometimes a sloppy tackler, Lucio on the other hand is very powerfull very decisive in tackles and also can support the attack when he charges the field while Rio doesnt.
Vidic - Daniel Van Buyten, I have to say that these two are close both tall and strong I have to slightly admit that Vidic is slightly better cause he is an asset in attack while Van Buyten although he scored twice against Milan doesnt prove much.
Wes Brown - Valerien Ismael, Wes Brown of course, young and decisive while Ismael is just a tall post. While Brown can play also as a Right Back.
Patrice Evra / Gabriel Heinze - Phillip Lahm, 2 vs 1, Still our Lahm is far better than these 2, although Evra is more talented than Heinze but Lahm uses both feet and excellent quality of crosses.

Mid) Ryan Giggs - Bastian Schweinsteiger, both are awsome, good skills quality crosses I cant choose 1 one of them, but Schweini did improve alot and still is very young, while Giggs well slightly old now, but STILL a force to be reckoned with.
Michael Carrick - Owen Hargreaves, Carrick more technical and good shots, while Owen is more like a running rabbit. So Carrick.
Paul Scholes - Mark Van Bommel, both good, but I have to say that Mark impressed me alot, good Defensive and Offensive, and both got good shots at goal but Scholes isnt consistant as Van Bommel. So Mark Van Bommel.
Cristiano Ronaldo - Hasan Salihamidzic, ....................I wouldnt say much about this...... 2 words, Cristiano Ronaldo. (Note that EVEN if Deisler is still playing I would have chose Ronaldo over him)

Att) Louis Saha - Lukas Podolski, Podolski much better, great left shot and good pace, while Saha is more a lucky goalscorer which United clearly enjoy this. But Poldi is way better.
Alan Smith - Claudio Pizarro, Smith is talented no doubt but Piza always delivers, works hard and a great asset.
Wayne Rooney - Roy Makaay, Wayne "the talent of this decade" "the next Pele" "The next big thing" Rooney...........only good about him is that he is strong and had good pace with the ball, not much of a goalscorer though, while Roy when given a good chance he takes it and well too, great goalscorer unlucky not to end up Golden Boot winner. So Makaay
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer - Roque Santa Cruz. Solskjaer is very good in last minutes of the game and has good pace aswell, Roque is good in the air was good when he was partnering Elber, not much of a goalscorer though I have to admit.

Manager) Sir Alex "chewing gum" Ferguson - Ottmar "Der General" Hitzfeld, good old chewing gum has good plays probably better than even Jose Mourinho and Luis Felipe Scolari but he always had a steady team he never build one unlike Hitzfeld but on the pitch his players play very attractive football use the wings way better, While Ottmar is a genius in german football and can build a team anytime and motivate the players better and make good choices during the match. So Hitzfeld.

So its Bayern 8 and Man Utd 5 and 2 draw

I enjoyed playing Comparism Game with you Paddy hope you reply to this game. BTW Tracy and Supraking, Dont consider me as a racist, cause Im not, I use the term *monkeyboy* not because of his skin, rather of how he acts when he scores and the way he keeps his face expression and his chin up( view when he scored the 2-2 draw against Barcelona and you'll see what I mean) Im more of an Eto'o and Ronaldinho fan rather than a Sheva and Kaka fan.

Man Im tired from typing this post now, I need my therapy song :D :D

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Postby MUTU » Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:35 am

Congratulations on the longest post ever, SNAKE!

Your original quote was "Also you really think that Rooney is better than any of our players????"
You're basically saying that Santa Cruz is better than Rooney. But we're saying that Rooney is better than all attackers. True, Makaay has been more prolific, but mostly against weak teams. Ask any defender who he'd rather face and you'll see what I mean. Rooney has got more pace and more strength than our attackers... he's also got a very powerful and accurate shot. As for dribbling, well none of our attackers are really great dribblers. I don't quite like Makaay... I find his play way too predictable, and that's why he disappears against big teams. Pizarro is the least predictable striker we have, but then his finishing leaves much to be desired.
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Postby charger256 » Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:55 am

Sorry to say that, but i doubt that under Magath we would face this situation, i mean missing CL spot next year. But what does bother me is that Pizarro is having a pretty decent season and still Hitzfield favours Podolski that sucked the hole season and Santa Cruz. However, if Santa Cruz leaves for Spain, for instance i'm 99% sure that he'll be pretty ok there compared to his playing for Bayern. And let's see how the management will bring the so called "stars" to the squad taking into consideration that we'll play in the UEFA Cup next season (I still can not believe it :roll: )
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Postby SNAKE » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:29 pm

MUTU wrote:Congratulations on the longest post ever, SNAKE!


Thank You kindly. I guess I broke a record huh? :)

Your original quote was "Also you really think that Rooney is better than any of our players????"


True he aint better than our starting XII strikers. Podolski/Pizarro - Makaay.

You're basically saying that Santa Cruz is better than Rooney. But we're saying that Rooney is better than all attackers.


I wouldnt go that far to compare Rqoue with Rooney, but he aint better than our top 3 strikers.

True, Makaay has been more prolific, but mostly against weak teams.


Has been? He still is. I still dont get why you say weak teams? so Schalke and Werder are weak teams? and Real Madrid aswell? Im basicly saying that when given the proper chance he takes it better than our current strikers.

Ask any defender who he'd rather face and you'll see what I mean.


I dunno Im not Roy to make this comment. Maybe he preffers Real defenders since next to Elber he is to most player to have scored against them after he left? Correct me if Im wrong pls.

Rooney has got more pace and more strength than our attackers... he's also got a very powerful and accurate shot.


Cant deny that he is strong and quick, but he fouls alot(which most of them are not given cause he's Rooney) bad mouths English refs.(nothing happens after), as for power I'd say that Roy has better volley shot than him he doesnt miss much in front of goal too, while Rooney about 60% of his "power" shots go not only past the posts but also outside the stadium(in other words not much accurate).

As for dribbling, well none of our attackers are really great dribblers.


Well Piza is not a bad dribbler and btw a strikers main focus is goals, between Makaay & Rooney, Makaay scored more, I'd leave the dribbling to Schweinsteiger and Cristiano Ronaldo.

I don't quite like Makaay... I find his play way too predictable, and that's why he disappears against big teams.


Dunno why you dont like him, he's been there for us when we needed him, predictable? Maybe true a typical striker same as Sheva and RVN.


Pizarro is the least predictable striker we have, but then his finishing leaves much to be desired.


True also but also is Podolski and about Piza goals truely are good he always delivers aswell.

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Postby Paddy » Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:52 pm

Look...The fact is Rooney is or will be better than Makaay he has more potential than Poldi...he dribbles better, hes stronger, has better shooting and he passes the ball better....he also goes back to help defence if needed which none of our attackers do....poldi doesnt have just one average season...last season with Koln wasn´t so great neither...he scored what 11 goals and he was the main star there.....


Makaay he is a good striker but he cant create a chance by himself....Rooney can do that and does that often....

And Schweini can dribble? You mean that bycicle thing he copied from Ronaldo but doesn´t do it half that good and almost never makes it past the opposition?

Schweini´s season this wasn´t even average it was teribble ...Ask our board they critized him as well....


Common....Rooney doesn´t score that much but I think he scored more goals this season than our best striker, Makaay. And the problem with our strikers is this because they don´t create chances out of nothing, when they don´t score they don´t do anything...
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Postby MUTU » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:04 pm

Well, you have your opinion, I have mine. I would play Rooney ahead of any Bayern striker. And with his age in mind, I'd only be happier if we signed Eto'o. For the record, I also prefer Rooney to Villa.

You cannot compare the goalscoring habits of 2 players playing for different teams. You have to keep in mind how well they were marked, how many chances they had, how difficult it was for them to score, etc. How often have you seen Makaay dribble past a couple of players and score? Maybe in his first season, but I don't see him do that much. To be honest I haven't seen Rooney much this season, but almost whenever I saw him play he scored wonderful goals or was unlucky (eg in the World Cup he didn't score, but he did some good runs skipping players and then shot wide)
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Postby fanOfBayern » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:18 pm

I would prefer Rooney over any of the strikers we have but for Pizarro..

Rooney makes a lot of goals and always a problem for defenders..whereas roy doesn't pose much threat to quality defenders...Pizarro is similar to Rooney..not much of a goal scorer but does A LOT for the team..

I think man U's main strength this season has been their CD parternship and their wings...

RYAN GIGGS is probably the best winger ever and Ronaldo has learnt a lot..he looks unstoppable at the moment...

Vidic has been rock solid and he has a great partnership with RIO...It's no secret that RIO is among the top 5 central defenders in Europe...and with regards to Lucio, a defender's job is to defend and not to score...I would prefer him saving a goal rather than scoring one.
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