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[2020-02-29] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

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What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:30 pm

TSG 1899 Hoffenheim will win
0
No votes
It will end in a draw
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No votes
Bayern Munich will win
1
100%
 
Total votes : 1

Re: [2020-02-29] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:15 pm

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Re: [2020-02-29] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby IsiahRashad » Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:24 pm

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Re: [2020-02-29] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:55 pm

Kalle rightfully labeled them the enemies of football.
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Re: [2020-02-29] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby aaaaaa » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:58 pm

OK, now its a bit more clear, Hopp really is scum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XCG-6OVICA
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Re: [2020-02-29] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby America USA » Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:05 pm

#12 wrote:How about scope reticles showing Hopp a week ago?

You DO realize this was just the final level of escalation?

Yes those scopes were bad as they were endorsing physical violence against Hopp. Those were the actions of Dortmund/Monchengladbach ultras and the offenders should’ve been evicted immediately and banned for 3 years from all German football stadiums.

Bayern ultras did not hold any signs endorsing physical assault or killing of Hopp. As someone who doesn’t care about the BL outside Bayern and couldn’t care less about Hoffenheim, I failed to see how the Bayern signs were so egregious as to stop the game when the same did not happen when Dortmund were playing them.


The user behind #12: I don’t want to argue with you on this topic anymore. Obviously you spend too much time posting on this forum and take things on this website/the internet very seriously. So go ahead and keep replying to my comment with your dozens of emojis but I think I’ve had enough of you and won’t be ever replying to you again.
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Re: [2020-02-29] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby ProSolidarity » Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:09 pm

aaaaaa wrote:OK, now its a bit more clear, Hopp really is scum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XCG-6OVICA



Thanks, aaaaaa, for sharing this. Gab seems to be one of the first to have accurately depicted the situation in the English language. Long story short, this wasn't the first protest directed at Hopp. Moreover, Hopp was simply the proxy in an attempt to demonstrate solidarity with the organised fans of Dortmund, just as Mönchengladbach, Union Berlin and others have done. After the DFB announced not to punish entire clubs for the behaviour of certain individuals back in 2017 (i.e. if one person lights a flare, you try to punish the culprit and not the 5000 people standing around him, as is usually practiced on a daily basis in respectable Western democracies), they went ahead with banning all Dortmund fans from Hoffenheim games until 2022 after chants were made and banners shown against Hopp, who not only set up the microphones Gab talked about, but even installed a machine emitting high frequency noises to overtone those same supporters (Source: https://www.spiegel.de/sport/fussball/p ... 80548.html).

As such, a precedent was set and the inevitable response from all (not only Bayern!) organised fans, who would naturally be worried they would be affected next, would be to call out the DFB on their change in stance. Unfortunately, there is no going back now, as a further precedent has been set: considering these kinds of banners, admittedly usually slightly milder (but not always, try watching games in BL2 and 3. Liga) are displayed in virtually every German stadium, the questions arises whether the DFB will really follow through and cancel multiple matches, considering huge demonstrations of solidarity with the Bayern fan scene are expected in stadia throughout Germany in the weeks to come?

One wouldn't expect fans watching the match on TV, possibly from abroad, to understand the intricacies of the issue. All they see is a banner calling someone a "SoB", which really isn't a very nice thing to say, and a reaction from their own team, which they naturally would prefer to place their faith in rather than calling them out on a possible overreaction. However, the notion that the scenes this Saturday were any different than at any other game in the past and were particularly worthy of match cancellation or any attention at all really, is absurd and something pedelled mainly by the response from Bayern's staff. It is also worth noting that Bayern is sponsored by Hopp's SAP. If my financial security was in part dependent on keeping my sponsors happy, I'd team up with them too! In any case, it's really interesting to see where the line was drawn.

What is, however, a little disappointing is the response on here suggesting all of these guys should be kicked out. For decades, Bayern's management was embarrassed to talk about the club's past, including year-long neglection of Kurt Landauer. It needed the expressed support on the part of Charlotte Knobloch, of Germany's Central Council of Jews, for the club to understand and take up Schickeria on their quest to shed light on Landauer's massively positive influence on our club. Furthermore, in 2014 Schickeria was awarded by the DFB with the famous "Julius Hirsch Preis" for their continued work against racism. They create the choreograpgies you all enjoy seeing, not the club, whose management is usually kept in the dark on the contents of the choreographies after they once, stupidly and possibly for marketing reasons, announced the design prior to its showing. Suggesting all these fans, from the same rows as those holding up the banner, are idiots and enemies of football and backing that up with a meaningless tweet of condemnation is rather, shall we call it, simple.
Last edited by ProSolidarity on Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [2020-02-29] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:18 pm

America USA wrote:
#12 wrote:How about scope reticles showing Hopp a week ago?

You DO realize this was just the final level of escalation?

Yes those scopes were bad as they were endorsing physical violence against Hopp. Those were the actions of Dortmund/Monchengladbach ultras and the offenders should’ve been evicted immediately and banned for 3 years from all German football stadiums.

Bayern ultras did not hold any signs endorsing physical assault or killing of Hopp. As someone who doesn’t care about the BL outside Bayern and couldn’t care less about Hoffenheim, I failed to see how the Bayern signs were so egregious as to stop the game when the same did not happen when Dortmund were playing them.


The user behind #12: I don’t want to argue with you on this topic anymore. Obviously you spend too much time posting on this forum and take things on this website/the internet very seriously. So go ahead and keep replying to my comment with your dozens of emojis but I think I’ve had enough of you and won’t be ever replying to you again.
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Re: [2020-02-29] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:31 am

ProSolidarity wrote:
aaaaaa wrote:OK, now its a bit more clear, Hopp really is scum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XCG-6OVICA



Thanks, aaaaaa, for sharing this. Gab seems to be one of the first to have accurately depicted the situation in the English language. Long story short, this wasn't the first protest directed at Hopp. Moreover, Hopp was simply the proxy in an attempt to demonstrate solidarity with the organised fans of Dortmund, just as Mönchengladbach, Union Berlin and others have done. After the DFB announced not to punish entire clubs for the behaviour of certain individuals back in 2017 (i.e. if one person lights a flare, you try to punish the culprit and not the 5000 people standing around him, as is usually practiced on a daily basis in respectable Western democracies), they went ahead with banning all Dortmund fans from Hoffenheim games until 2022 after chants were made and banners shown against Hopp, who not only set up the microphones Gab talked about, but even installed a machine emitting high frequency noises to overtone those same supporters (Source: https://www.spiegel.de/sport/fussball/p ... 80548.html).

As such, a precedent was set and the inevitable response from all (not only Bayern!) organised fans, who would naturally be worried they would be affected next, would be to call out the DFB on their change in stance. Unfortunately, there is no going back now, as a further precedent has been set: considering these kinds of banners, admittedly usually slightly milder (but not always, try watching games in BL2 and 3. Liga) are displayed in virtually every German stadium, the questions arises whether the DFB will really follow through and cancel multiple matches, considering huge demonstrations of solidarity with the Bayern fan scene are expected in stadia throughout Germany in the weeks to come?

One wouldn't expect fans watching the match on TV, possibly from abroad, to understand the intricacies of the issue. All they see is a banner calling someone a "SoB", which really isn't a very nice thing to say, and a reaction from their own team, which they naturally would prefer to place their faith in rather than calling them out on a possible overreaction. However, the notion that the scenes this Saturday were any different than at any other game in the past and were particularly worthy of match cancellation or any attention at all really, is absurd and something pedelled mainly by the response from Bayern's staff. It is also worth noting that Bayern is sponsored by Hopp's SAP. If my financial security was in part dependent on keeping my sponsors happy, I'd team up with them too! In any case, it's really interesting to see where the line was drawn.

What is, however, a little disappointing is the response on here suggesting all of these guys should be kicked out. For decades, Bayern's management was embarrassed to talk about the club's past, including year-long neglection of Kurt Landauer. It needed the expressed support on the part of Charlotte Knobloch, of Germany's Central Council of Jews, for the club to understand and take up Schickeria on their quest to shed light on Landauer's massively positive influence on our club. Furthermore, in 2014 Schickeria was awarded by the DFB with the famous "Julius Hirsch Preis" for their continued work against racism. They create the choreograpgies you all enjoy seeing, not the club, whose management is usually kept in the dark on the contents of the choreographies after they once, stupidly and possibly for marketing reasons, announced the design prior to its showing. Suggesting all these fans, from the same rows as those holding up the banner, are idiots and enemies of football and backing that up with a meaningless tweet of condemnation is rather, shall we call it, simple.

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the insight. I think you are missing the point: we were all enjoying a game of football, crushing our opponents, and some fans decided to stand up against DFB in solidarity with fans of other clubs and spoiled a great match. If you guys want to protest, do that at the Marienplatz not when we're winning 6-0 please. And using the right wording.

Please understand that those who are in favour of abolishing 50+1 and support Hopp would find your actions rather selfish, and that's why you shouldn't impose your protest over others.
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Re: [2020-02-29] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby ProSolidarity » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:11 am

Please don't assume I must be one of the protesters, simply because I've decided not to lash out against them like everyone without the insight has. I haven't had the time to go to a football game in years and, embarrassingly, felt the urge to sign up on here and shed light on the situation.

I'll be interested to see how opinion on the topic changes, if at all, in the weeks to come, as, again, I would expect intense reaction from all corners of Germany throughout the next few games. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong.
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Re: [2020-02-29] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:31 am

ProSolidarity wrote:Please don't assume I must be one of the protesters, simply because I've decided not to lash out against them like everyone without the insight has. I haven't had the time to go to a football game in years and, embarrassingly, felt the urge to sign up on here and shed light on the situation.

I'll be interested to see how opinion on the topic changes, if at all, in the weeks to come, as, again, I would expect intense reaction from all corners of Germany throughout the next few games. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong.

Unfortunately it's the wrong language and the wrong platform too. Cards on the table, I am in favour of anything that improves the quality of FC Bayern and German football in general, and I believe abolishing 50+1 is a step in that direction. I am however sympathetic to the backtracking of collective punishment issue. I understand DFB believe that the protest by BVB was too much. Truth be told, it wasn't very civilised.
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Re: [2020-02-29] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:44 am

Wrong wording yes
But wrong platform no.

P.S the German ultras were also right to protest against the Monday night game...
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Re: [2020-02-29] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:58 am

As I said, am in favour of every move that improves quality as long as it is ethical. Therefore I am in favour of Monday night matches as that helps bring in more revenue.

I don't like watching matches on Monday either, but sometimes you need to sacrifice. You remember how happy we were when we won the treble.
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Re: [2020-02-29] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:16 am

Thing is that I believe that fans are only interested in their game...
Especially the local ones.
So they don't give a shit about the rest of the teams
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Re: [2020-02-29] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby aaaaaa » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:45 pm

MUTU wrote:
ProSolidarity wrote:Please don't assume I must be one of the protesters, simply because I've decided not to lash out against them like everyone without the insight has. I haven't had the time to go to a football game in years and, embarrassingly, felt the urge to sign up on here and shed light on the situation.

I'll be interested to see how opinion on the topic changes, if at all, in the weeks to come, as, again, I would expect intense reaction from all corners of Germany throughout the next few games. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong.

Unfortunately it's the wrong language and the wrong platform too. Cards on the table, I am in favour of anything that improves the quality of FC Bayern and German football in general, and I believe abolishing 50+1 is a step in that direction. I am however sympathetic to the backtracking of collective punishment issue. I understand DFB believe that the protest by BVB was too much. Truth be told, it wasn't very civilised.


you think abolishing 50+1 would improve the quality of Bayern... I dont buy that, personally I dont want anything to do with some oil dictators using club as a toy. We are doing just fine
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Re: [2020-02-29] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby Fénix » Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:01 pm

MUTU wrote:
ProSolidarity wrote:Please don't assume I must be one of the protesters, simply because I've decided not to lash out against them like everyone without the insight has. I haven't had the time to go to a football game in years and, embarrassingly, felt the urge to sign up on here and shed light on the situation.

I'll be interested to see how opinion on the topic changes, if at all, in the weeks to come, as, again, I would expect intense reaction from all corners of Germany throughout the next few games. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong.

Unfortunately it's the wrong language and the wrong platform too. Cards on the table, I am in favour of anything that improves the quality of FC Bayern and German football in general, and I believe abolishing 50+1 is a step in that direction. I am however sympathetic to the backtracking of collective punishment issue. I understand DFB believe that the protest by BVB was too much. Truth be told, it wasn't very civilised.

Funny thing is that I want 50+1 to be abolished for reasons I have mentioned in the 2. Bundesliga topic.

The current situation looks absolutely ridiculous in my eyes after this match and weekend where nobody is talking anymore about football, results, form of clubs/teams and players and so on but rather is talking about ultras' of many clubs protesting against Hopp and even Mateschitz.

It looks like both DFB and DFL and ultras are so rigid, primitive and fanatic about 50+1 rule and yet they have found themselves on opposite sides this weekend and few weeks ago after BVB ultras scene in Sinsheim, too. This is the funniest thing when everyone plays die hard role, until the last drop of blood to go on for the same, but now they attack each other and it looks like a battle of 2 roosters. :lol:

The same was with Borussia Mönchengladbach and now it is with us on the last Saturday. Right after that, the same thing happened in Hannover in the 2. Liga.
Basically people gave the necessary attention and now the battle of protectionists of 50+1 and who's got more right and arguments to defend it and shouting can go on and get even more harsh in forthcoming period if nothing radical changes because convincing idealists is a lost battle and you don't give them dozens of billions of euros to buy their silence or attitude change. :)

If both side claim to be right and aren't going to give up on Dietmar Hopp and stadium language after 12 years of Hoffenheim in the Bundesliga, then the only way to see one side winning and another one losing or both sides losing is to abolish 50+1 rule.
Once you remove that fundamentalism out of German football and society, ultras lost their argument to "hurt Dietmar Hopp's feelings" and war on defending the rule thefore radical measures would be publicly accepted and justified against them on German stadiums.

2 sides cannot be winners, only one of them and the other one must also accept they are wrong, too.
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