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[2021-08-13] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

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What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:30 pm

Borussia Mönchengladbach will win
0
No votes
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Bayern Munich will win
6
100%
 
Total votes : 6

Re: [2021-08-13] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby Fénix » Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:27 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Honestly if Stanisic keeps impressing until Pavard is back and our wingers keep being shit... just throw Davies in there once Pavard is back.

I'm not in favor of such moves as it was the case with Alaba, it can have a counter effect long term.

Our wingers must get their shit in order, in the first line Gnabry should find hid old form from the first 2 seasons and we are on horse.

Coman knows what he has to do and I'm not in favor of him since his focus partially goes to contract and money stuff.

Sané must step up big time like never before in his life or else he'll become a flop and a major problem for FC Bayern.
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Re: [2021-08-13] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby YlonenXabi » Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:52 am

Davies is not good enough taking on defenders.

Yes, he made Semedo look like a clown once, but Davies needs space to excel. He would not be getting any space at all if he plays winger because he will usually have 1 or even 2 defenders on him.
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Re: [2021-08-13] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby aterford » Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:54 pm

bartsch wrote:Read a lot of Davies hate on here… didn’t get to watch, but saw the post match ratings and he had the best on the entire team. So are you guys just overly critical or are the paid critics wrong?


He started off really, really poorly. Looked like he wasn't even match-ready at all, for the first 15 minutes or so I thought it was looking like a mistake to even put him in the squad, much less start. BUT to his credit he played his way into the match really really well. We didn't have a ton of standout performers but on the total balance it's probably fair to say he did end up being one of our best players, even though he was a big factor in the only goal we conceded.

IsiahRashad wrote:The things which I learned from our first game:
The positives:
-Way more direct, one touches playing style;
-A lot more efficient shooting, which is not usual for us;
-We look dangerous in set-pieces;
-Stanisic was a good surprise.


I'm mostly in agreement here. Result aside we had some very very good spells in the middle 60 minutes of the game or so and looked really dangerous (and FWIW ended the match roughly +1 xG ahead of Gladbach, give or take a bit depending on algorithm). That's after next to no preseason and with many key players missing or out of rhythm.

IsiahRashad wrote:The positives:
-Sane is our most dangerous winger; Davies is looking fresh
The negatives:
-Coman still doesn't know how to create a proper chance-in his 7th season with us, he's still using the cross and pray tactic;
-Muller looked out of place most of the time, made a lot of mistakes especially in the first half


FCBayernMunchen wrote:3) We’re going to have to make a decision about our wingers. Either we’re going to splash big next summer or let’s just move on from wingers. None of our options bar Musiala (who does well in other positions anyway) excite me. I feel like Gnabry is more likely to carry on like last season than like 2020, Coman was only good for a few weeks, Sane... maybe he’ll be better, I hope so.


Kind of how I'm feeling regarding our wingers at this point. Just not super in love with any of our wing options save for Musiala. I don't think they're terrible by any means but frankly I wouldn't consider any of them untouchable at this point, if a good offer was made on any of the three I would probably entertain it tbh. More and more I'm finding myself feeling like we have a handful of wingers who are capable of truly exceptional performances but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule and they often feel fairly pedestrian. Last year was arguably Coman's best-ever season and it was barely better than what would have been perhaps Sane's worst. We know what we have in Coman and I think at this point it's silly to expect much improvement beyond that (just like it is probably silly to just continue to assume we will have a fit Coman). Sane has probably been the most 'dangerous' overall but I think you'd be hard-pressed to find many who would call his signing a success at this point. Even the biggest Sane-fans would probably have to admit he's somewhat disappointed when you consider the hype/price tag he was brought in with. And I know - recovering from injury and whatnot - but it's been nearly 18 months now since he was healed from his knee injury. How long are we going to continue using that as the reason for not living up to what we thought we'd bought? When is the last time Gnabry was consistently having a big impact in matches? Again - not a bad player by any means, but I feel like his rep for us has been boosted a bit by his 2019/20 UCL...which, like I said: it's feeling like that sort of form is more the exception than the rule.

Like above, I don't think any of them are BAD and Sane in particular's had a very short time here...maybe with a new manager we will see some improvement, but for the two who have been here a while it feels like there's probably just not that much more performance that can be squeezed out of them I guess. We still probably have a better winger corps than most teams overall, but after RB and a midfielder I'd wager it's probably our next biggest area of improvement IMO
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Re: [2021-08-13] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:26 pm

aterford wrote:
bartsch wrote:Read a lot of Davies hate on here… didn’t get to watch, but saw the post match ratings and he had the best on the entire team. So are you guys just overly critical or are the paid critics wrong?


He started off really, really poorly. Looked like he wasn't even match-ready at all, for the first 15 minutes or so I thought it was looking like a mistake to even put him in the squad, much less start. BUT to his credit he played his way into the match really really well. We didn't have a ton of standout performers but on the total balance it's probably fair to say he did end up being one of our best players, even though he was a big factor in the only goal we conceded.

IsiahRashad wrote:The things which I learned from our first game:
The positives:
-Way more direct, one touches playing style;
-A lot more efficient shooting, which is not usual for us;
-We look dangerous in set-pieces;
-Stanisic was a good surprise.


I'm mostly in agreement here. Result aside we had some very very good spells in the middle 60 minutes of the game or so and looked really dangerous (and FWIW ended the match roughly +1 xG ahead of Gladbach, give or take a bit depending on algorithm). That's after next to no preseason and with many key players missing or out of rhythm.

IsiahRashad wrote:The positives:
-Sane is our most dangerous winger; Davies is looking fresh
The negatives:
-Coman still doesn't know how to create a proper chance-in his 7th season with us, he's still using the cross and pray tactic;
-Muller looked out of place most of the time, made a lot of mistakes especially in the first half


FCBayernMunchen wrote:3) We’re going to have to make a decision about our wingers. Either we’re going to splash big next summer or let’s just move on from wingers. None of our options bar Musiala (who does well in other positions anyway) excite me. I feel like Gnabry is more likely to carry on like last season than like 2020, Coman was only good for a few weeks, Sane... maybe he’ll be better, I hope so.


Kind of how I'm feeling regarding our wingers at this point. Just not super in love with any of our wing options save for Musiala. I don't think they're terrible by any means but frankly I wouldn't consider any of them untouchable at this point, if a good offer was made on any of the three I would probably entertain it tbh. More and more I'm finding myself feeling like we have a handful of wingers who are capable of truly exceptional performances but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule and they often feel fairly pedestrian. Last year was arguably Coman's best-ever season and it was barely better than what would have been perhaps Sane's worst. We know what we have in Coman and I think at this point it's silly to expect much improvement beyond that (just like it is probably silly to just continue to assume we will have a fit Coman). Sane has probably been the most 'dangerous' overall but I think you'd be hard-pressed to find many who would call his signing a success at this point. Even the biggest Sane-fans would probably have to admit he's somewhat disappointed when you consider the hype/price tag he was brought in with. And I know - recovering from injury and whatnot - but it's been nearly 18 months now since he was healed from his knee injury. How long are we going to continue using that as the reason for not living up to what we thought we'd bought? When is the last time Gnabry was consistently having a big impact in matches? Again - not a bad player by any means, but I feel like his rep for us has been boosted a bit by his 2019/20 UCL...which, like I said: it's feeling like that sort of form is more the exception than the rule.

Like above, I don't think any of them are BAD and Sane in particular's had a very short time here...maybe with a new manager we will see some improvement, but for the two who have been here a while it feels like there's probably just not that much more performance that can be squeezed out of them I guess. We still probably have a better winger corps than most teams overall, but after RB and a midfielder I'd wager it's probably our next biggest area of improvement IMO
Well, we had a stonewall penalty not given that would probably contest the xG statistics…


As for the rest:

I get shit for saying we turned out lucky in 2020, I got shit for saying Gnabry was not the right player way before…
Thing is, while people like to assign premature judgement here, they tend to oversee doing the same thing
Turns out there is and was quite some substance to these claims…
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Re: [2021-08-13] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:36 pm

#12 should apply for a job with fc Bayern
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Re: [2021-08-13] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby aterford » Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:15 am

#12 wrote:Well, we had a stonewall penalty not given that would probably contest the xG statistics…

As for the rest:

I get shit for saying we turned out lucky in 2020, I got shit for saying Gnabry was not the right player way before…
Thing is, while people like to assign premature judgement here, they tend to oversee doing the same thing
Turns out there is and was quite some substance to these claims…


Meh. There's a pretty large difference between "We got lucky" and "Gnabry might not be as good as we thought". We were pretty comprehensively the best team in the competition for UCL 19/20. Clearly without any doubt post-Covid break, and arguably pre-Covid break, for that measure. I think it's okay to accept that there were some factors that worked in our favor (along with some that worked similarly in the favor of others and perhaps some that worked us too, conversely) while also acknowledging that this doesn't make it a fluke or luck or whatever. The best team won in 2019/20, that's pretty much the bottom line.

And I suspect if we are both being honest...by and large it's not things like "Gnabry is not the right player" that you catch flack for...I think we both know it's things like claiming we are dead in the water or that Dortmund or Leipzig will surely win it or that we will turn up trophyless and are soon to be irrelevant that catches the great, great majority of criticism/pushbacks... :wink:
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Re: [2021-08-13] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:22 am

aterford wrote:
#12 wrote:Well, we had a stonewall penalty not given that would probably contest the xG statistics…

As for the rest:

I get shit for saying we turned out lucky in 2020, I got shit for saying Gnabry was not the right player way before…
Thing is, while people like to assign premature judgement here, they tend to oversee doing the same thing
Turns out there is and was quite some substance to these claims…


Meh. There's a pretty large difference between "We got lucky" and "Gnabry might not be as good as we thought". We were pretty comprehensively the best team in the competition for UCL 19/20. Clearly without any doubt post-Covid break, and arguably pre-Covid break, for that measure. I think it's okay to accept that there were some factors that worked in our favor (along with some that worked similarly in the favor of others and perhaps some that worked us too, conversely) while also acknowledging that this doesn't make it a fluke or luck or whatever. The best team won in 2019/20, that's pretty much the bottom line.

And I suspect if we are both being honest...by and large it's not things like "Gnabry is not the right player" that you catch flack for...I think we both know it's things like claiming we are dead in the water or that Dortmund or Leipzig will surely win it or that we will turn up trophyless and are soon to be irrelevant that catches the great, great majority of criticism/pushbacks... :wink:
Well, most of this stuff is years back… I get nervous when we perform shitty… And I am especially nervous this year, but yeah, partly acknowledged… I am also not contesting that the best team won, I am contesting our ability to be the best team in a REGULAR season, which people just ignored and jumped right to ridiculing "my prediction" - again ignoring that it was made regarding different parameters…

I also admit to claiming the irrelevant thing, yes, but relevance is a matter of perspective… To me it is semifinal plus… RO16 plus is pretty mich a given, but to me that‘s not bring relevant…

Either way, again, I "scare" early and I AM sensible, but I think there’s hardly anyone left here who tries to lie to themselves that we HAVEN‘T declined in the last few windows…
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Re: [2021-08-13] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby aterford » Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:32 am

On that I would largely agree...though I think for me the decline is perhaps not quite as precipitous as for others. Even with a thin squad that I'll admit hasn't been reinforced to my liking I think at worst we're still a top-5 club in the game today... But I suspect in a month or two we will have a lot clearer of a picture in that regard.
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Re: [2021-08-13] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:59 am

Top5 Bundesliga or Europe?

Agreed (but for the record, I think we‘re not anymore)
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Re: [2021-08-13] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:12 am

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Re: [2021-08-13] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby Ottomeister87 » Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:12 pm

Tbh.. all those xG bs stats, who actually gives a shit about them. That what matters is what actually happens on the pitch.. Dedication, determination, aggressiveness, giving it your all and what the scoreboard says at the end of the 90+ minutes. Its like with the guy in the Buli, who blends in the goal probability after a goal was scored, he should be smacked through the tv for such bs that none cares about.
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Re: [2021-08-13] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby PunkCapitalist » Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:29 pm

Ottomeister87 wrote:Tbh.. all those xG bs stats, who actually gives a shit about them. That what matters is what actually happens on the pitch.. Dedication, determination, aggressiveness, giving it your all and what the scoreboard says at the end of the 90+ minutes. Its like with the guy in the Buli, who blends in the goal probability after a goal was scored, he should be smacked through the tv for such bs that none cares about.
Ok, Niko.
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Re: [2021-08-13] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby Ottomeister87 » Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:31 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
Ottomeister87 wrote:Tbh.. all those xG bs stats, who actually gives a shit about them. That what matters is what actually happens on the pitch.. Dedication, determination, aggressiveness, giving it your all and what the scoreboard says at the end of the 90+ minutes. Its like with the guy in the Buli, who blends in the goal probability after a goal was scored, he should be smacked through the tv for such bs that none cares about.
Ok, Niko.

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Re: [2021-08-13] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:32 pm

Ottomeister87 wrote:Tbh.. all those xG bs stats, who actually gives a shit about them. That what matters is what actually happens on the pitch.. Dedication, determination, aggressiveness, giving it your all and what the scoreboard says at the end of the 90+ minutes. Its like with the guy in the Buli, who blends in the goal probability after a goal was scored, he should be smacked through the tv for such bs that none cares about.

I care, which kind of invalidates your argument.
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