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[2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

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What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:30 pm

Borussia Mönchengladbach will win
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It will end in a draw
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Bayern Munich will win
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100%
 
Total votes : 2

Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby Achilles » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:41 pm

It's not hate for Davies. For god's sake I do love the kid. He has enormous potential and just in one season playing regularly he was nothing but world class. His performance in the CL was miserable, bad passes without anyone around, couldn't control shit and very anxious in the challenges. Statistics are just a piece of the cake and in most positions especially in the full-back doesn't say the whole truth. As I mentioned, I believe that Davies will recover sooner or later.

As for the Hernandez partnership, I totally agree, Alaba is just a joke. Simply anyone from our roster would be better right now than Alaba. That's how bad he plays. Unfortunately Flick has a fixation with him and doesn't drop him for 3-4 straight games. The defensive problem we're facing it's not only due to the personnel that goes without saying on the other hand I see no actions taken to fix this and that's what I'm worried right now.

If this game was the starting point for Flick to suck it up and make adjustments I'm fine.
Another thing that I really despise is the political corectness nobody address the problems or picture players so they can get motivated. This is only the first time I see Flick saying something like that(Alaba was a step early etc) WTF is going on? The captains should step up, how is possible Neuer not addressing these things with that four guys pretending to be "Defenders" but expose him and the team like that...

The board is on a nirvana mode, eeeverything is ok for them... Wake up you donuts, the defense has become a playground, the summer transfers are a fiasco and nobody does something to fix the issues.
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby Effenberg777 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:16 pm

I suspect the only reason why Flick plays Alaba every game is to get him some injury. One injured Alaba= no transfer. Dont see any other reason to bench Lucas
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:18 pm

MUTU wrote:
#12 wrote:
MUTU wrote:The hate on Davies is completely illogical to me. Let's understand the claims I've seen:

"He was the worst player on the pitch in the CL final." No, he wasn't. As per WhoScored, Bayern averaged 6.71 and PSG averaged 6.41. Davies got a 6.5. 5 players played in defence that day, and only Kimmich had a higher rating than Davies. Alaba got 6.3.

"He's been crap since proving that he was a one-season wonder." What the actual fuck?!?!
Let's see all matches he played for more than 7 minutes this season:

  1. Hoffenheim 4-1 Bayern. Bayern players averaged 6.26. Davies got 6.8 and was the second best Bayern player on the pitch. Alaba got 6.1.
  2. Bayern 4-3 Hertha. Bayern players averaged 6.87, Davies played as a winger and got 7.4 and was the 3rd best Bayern player on the pitch. Alaba got 6.0.
  3. Bayern 2-0 Lokomotiv Moscow. Bayern players averaged 7.19, Davies got 8.6 and was the 2nd best player on the pitch. Alaba didn't play, so Davies excelled having a decent player next to him.
  4. Union Berlin 1-1 Bayern. Bayern averaged 6.65, and Davies got a 6.3. Still the 2nd best defender on the night. Alaba got 6.2
  5. Bayer Leverkusen 1-2 Bayern. Bayern average was 6.76, Davies got a 6.9. No other defender got a higher rating. Alaba didn't play.
  6. Bayern 5-2 Mainz. Bayern average was 7.13. Davies got a 7.7. Alaba next to him got a 6.2.
  7. Gladbach 3-2 Bayern. Bayern average was 6.56, Davies got a 5.8 and Alaba a 6.4.

So Davies has ONE MATCH since last year where he was inferior to Alaba, and suddenly he's a one-season wonder, finished, crap whatever?!

Yesterday was probably the first time that Davies truly disappointed.

You guys are blinded. When he has an off-game, even his off-game is still better than most other players on the pitch. You can't expect him to score ratings of 8.0 every match. No one does. The real reason he's not at the same level as last season (he's still at a good level) is that he's having to play with a crappy Alaba next to him.
WhoScored is not the be all and end all...!

And Alaba played in Leverkusen, no matter where he touched you


Apologies. He had a 6.3, amongst the very worst. In a nutshell, the only time Alaba didn't play in the same match as Davies, Davies got an 8.6. Poor kid can't run at his usual speed having to carry a black Beckenbauer and his sacks of money on his back.
Why are you comparing him with Alaba...
Why not comparing him with Davies of last season?
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:30 pm

MUTU wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:
MUTU wrote:The hate on Davies is completely illogical to me. Let's understand the claims I've seen:

"He was the worst player on the pitch in the CL final." No, he wasn't. As per WhoScored, Bayern averaged 6.71 and PSG averaged 6.41. Davies got a 6.5. 5 players played in defence that day, and only Kimmich had a higher rating than Davies. Alaba got 6.3.

"He's been crap since proving that he was a one-season wonder." What the actual fuck?!?!
Let's see all matches he played for more than 7 minutes this season:

  1. Hoffenheim 4-1 Bayern. Bayern players averaged 6.26. Davies got 6.8 and was the second best Bayern player on the pitch. Alaba got 6.1.
  2. Bayern 4-3 Hertha. Bayern players averaged 6.87, Davies played as a winger and got 7.4 and was the 3rd best Bayern player on the pitch. Alaba got 6.0.
  3. Bayern 2-0 Lokomotiv Moscow. Bayern players averaged 7.19, Davies got 8.6 and was the 2nd best player on the pitch. Alaba didn't play, so Davies excelled having a decent player next to him.
  4. Union Berlin 1-1 Bayern. Bayern averaged 6.65, and Davies got a 6.3. Still the 2nd best defender on the night. Alaba got 6.2
  5. Bayer Leverkusen 1-2 Bayern. Bayern average was 6.76, Davies got a 6.9. No other defender got a higher rating. Alaba didn't play.
  6. Bayern 5-2 Mainz. Bayern average was 7.13. Davies got a 7.7. Alaba next to him got a 6.2.
  7. Gladbach 3-2 Bayern. Bayern average was 6.56, Davies got a 5.8 and Alaba a 6.4.

So Davies has ONE MATCH since last year where he was inferior to Alaba, and suddenly he's a one-season wonder, finished, crap whatever?!

Yesterday was probably the first time that Davies truly disappointed.

You guys are blinded. When he has an off-game, even his off-game is still better than most other players on the pitch. You can't expect him to score ratings of 8.0 every match. No one does. The real reason he's not at the same level as last season (he's still at a good level) is that he's having to play with a crappy Alaba next to him.
Or because he has no Perisic a hard worker in front of him

Ridiculous on too many aspects. How do you make the correlation and extract that last season Davies played better with Perisic than without?
Debating with Ramsej is fruitless. He is literally just trying to lighten the burden on his favorites.

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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:35 pm

ramsej84 wrote:Why are you comparing him with Alaba...
Why not comparing him with Davies of last season?

Because everybody played better last season, and the current weakness of Alaba as I explained is a factor as to why Davies is weaker than last season.

Remember, the last time Alaba didn't play, Davies got a match rating of 8.6 and we kept a clean sheet. It was our last clean sheet.

Davies is still currently the best LB in the world, even if he isn't the same as last season.
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby Fénix » Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:38 pm

Achilles wrote:The captains should step up, how is possible Neuer not addressing these things with that four guys pretending to be "Defenders" but expose him and the team like that...

Very good point, but we no longer live in era of football romance and authoritative personalities. It's like Neuer forgot how it was at the beginning of his career. :)

You reminded me with this how Bayern captains before Philipp Lahm were crazy about this stuff. Neuer now misses that Kahn's aggressive approach. He should shout or even finally punch his defenders and teammates for this terrible playing.
The institution has literally saved minimum 11-12 safe goals so far with his incredible interventions and saves in the Bundesliga. :roll:

Alaba must be kicked out of the starting 11. In his head everything is about a big contract and an insolent sign-on fee.
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:19 pm

95% of the blame lies with Flick.

Which kind of sane coach asks 10 of his players to be in the opposing half when they're winning 2-0 away?

Think about it, when we were losing 0-2 to Mainz, did they have players in their half?
Or, if you think it's an unfair comparison, have you EVER seen any other club do that in a league match (not talking about the 2nd leg of a KO where a club needed to win 3-0 to progress)?

If it's not Flick who's enforcing these gung-ho tactics, then what, it's his players betraying him and he's too much of a pussy to call them out in post-match comments or sub them off for disobeying his orders? Cos then it'd still be on him for abysmal leadership skills.

If we weren't Bayern Munich, always keen to show how big their blue-and-white Bavarian balls are, we would have sat back after the 2-0 and counter-attacked them. It would have been a totally different match. But this club... it's too proud to play anything other than all-out attack.
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby Fénix » Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:29 pm

I agree partly with you MUTU, but then again our team isn't physically and mentally fit to play this kind of football you mentioned.

That's why Heynckes' Treble is still bigger than Flick's despite an incredible winning streak and all wins in the last season in the CL.
Defending is also part of football.

Nevertheless, when you are on top, it's a work of art to stay there for 2-3 more years.
And for our dear and beloved Hans-Dieter Flick it's a double task since it's his second professional season in football as a head coach therefore he needs to prove and confirm in the next 6-7 years or even 12-13 as a top coach.
Not just that it remains as a great moment full of great circumstances that favored us and him.
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:35 pm

Fénix wrote:I agree partly with you MUTU, but then again our team isn't physically and mentally fit to play this kind of football you mentioned.

That's why Heynckes' Treble is still bigger than Flick's despite an incredible winning streak and all wins in the last season in the CL.
Defending is also part of football.

Nevertheless, when you are on top, it's a work of art to stay there for 2-3 more years.
And for our dear and beloved Hans-Dieter Flick it's a double task since it's his second professional season in football as a head coach therefore he needs to prove and confirm in the next 6-7 years or even 12-13 as a top coach.
Not just that it remains as a great moment full of great circumstances that favored us and him.
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:00 pm

Fénix wrote:I agree partly with you MUTU, but then again our team isn't physically and mentally fit to play this kind of football you mentioned.

I don't agree about the physically part, sitting back allows teams to relax, defenders passing the ball between each other while walking around, to try and 'pull' the opponents to attack. I think we'd run less and also have more breathers if we sat back. Attacking with those numbers requires the whole team to be fully focused non-stop and ready to run all the time.
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby Fénix » Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:27 pm

MUTU wrote:
Fénix wrote:I agree partly with you MUTU, but then again our team isn't physically and mentally fit to play this kind of football you mentioned.

I don't agree about the physically part, sitting back allows teams to relax, defenders passing the ball between each other while walking around, to try and 'pull' the opponents to attack. I think we'd run less and also have more breathers if we sat back. Attacking with those numbers requires the whole team to be fully focused non-stop and ready to run all the time.

I referred on mentioning high line and attacking style all the time.
Sitting back in any case allows us to prevent conceding goals, but still requires defensive game since our opponents can put us a lot of pressure and just one error leads to goal in our net. Not that we defended quite well when Guardiola and Heynckes were our coaches, either. Players used to be in full-time mode since the 60th minute and that wasn't good. This should be executed in waves, at least this season.

Balance has always been something you want to have and to use and this is the season when your defending abilities are very important and desirable.
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby Achilles » Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:39 pm

MUTU made a valid point. I don't remember Bayern since 2013 knowing how to defend, not deep, just defend the lead for a quarter.
What we did yesterday considering our crap defense in the last months can be called tactical suicide from Flick's side.

Why the hell place that high line and against a very good team in counter-attacks and compeletely inhospitable opponent like Gladbach who always defeat us at least once a year giving them that extra space where you could locked down a 2-0 first quarter and reassess in the half-time?

Something is fishy here and it's not only tactical. Many many fixations from Flick. Must be something like a political game with the board. He is too rational as a person and coach to make such blatantly mistakes over and over. It's just too much.
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:58 pm

Achilles wrote:MUTU made a valid point. I don't remember Bayern since 2013 knowing how to defend, not deep, just defend the lead for a quarter.
What we did yesterday considering our crap defense in the last months can be called tactical suicide from Flick's side.

Why the hell place that high line and against a very good team in counter-attacks and compeletely inhospitable opponent like Gladbach who always defeat us at least once a year giving them that extra space where you could locked down a 2-0 first quarter and reassess in the half-time?

Something is fishy here and it's not only tactical. Many many fixations from Flick. Must be something like a political game with the board. He is too rational as a person and coach to make such blatantly mistakes over and over. It's just too much.
We always defend... We have an offensive approach, but even at 0-0 and 1-0 we did MUCH better against PSG, we had numerous shitty games... And still won, even with clean sheets... (Union Berlin comes to mind), we managed to do it at Dortmund and against Leipzig, while definitely not shutting them out but at least showing up...
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:09 pm

Achilles wrote:MUTU made a valid point. I don't remember Bayern since 2013 knowing how to defend, not deep, just defend the lead for a quarter.
What we did yesterday considering our crap defense in the last months can be called tactical suicide from Flick's side.

Why the hell place that high line and against a very good team in counter-attacks and compeletely inhospitable opponent like Gladbach who always defeat us at least once a year giving them that extra space where you could locked down a 2-0 first quarter and reassess in the half-time?

Something is fishy here and it's not only tactical. Many many fixations from Flick. Must be something like a political game with the board. He is too rational as a person and coach to make such blatantly mistakes over and over. It's just too much.
Where do you get that he is too rational for this???

Flick won us the treble, yes, but let's not forget that the whole of his track record is 2 half seasons with Bayern. That's all we know for sure about him. That's why I was so disturbed by how easily everyone called him best coach ever and began comparing him with Jupp. There just isn't a track record to judge him properly on. For all we know, he might end up being a one season wonder.

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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby Achilles » Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:55 pm

He didn't "just" won the treble. He made adjustments to a team who where easily kicked out from "16" and where hard to watch on TV and transformed to a treble team but a machine team who went on breaking records, played wonderful football and so on...

He was assistant coach for Germany too. The comments about his contribution on building that squad are many.
But I'm not expecting too much from a guy who stated that Kimmich is not half the player Thiago was :lol:

I see that the deconstruction campaign is already on while we are still top in every competition and above any team in the world since all the opponents (domestic or abroad) have minor or major problems in their game.

I think we can still hire Kovac or Ancelotti. They have a better record than Flick.
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