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[2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the German Bundesliga matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:30 pm

Borussia Mönchengladbach will win
0
No votes
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Bayern Munich will win
2
100%
 
Total votes : 2

Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:41 pm

In the long run you will always fall behind if you fuck up so bad... It’s just not a sustainable model to have to score 3+ to win or at least draw a game... It won’t work...
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:42 pm

The hate on Davies is completely illogical to me. Let's understand the claims I've seen:

"He was the worst player on the pitch in the CL final." No, he wasn't. As per WhoScored, Bayern averaged 6.71 and PSG averaged 6.41. Davies got a 6.5. 5 players played in defence that day, and only Kimmich had a higher rating than Davies. Alaba got 6.3.

"He's been crap since proving that he was a one-season wonder." What the actual fuck?!?!
Let's see all matches he played for more than 7 minutes this season:

  1. Hoffenheim 4-1 Bayern. Bayern players averaged 6.26. Davies got 6.8 and was the second best Bayern player on the pitch. Alaba got 6.1.
  2. Bayern 4-3 Hertha. Bayern players averaged 6.87, Davies played as a winger and got 7.4 and was the 3rd best Bayern player on the pitch. Alaba got 6.0.
  3. Bayern 2-0 Lokomotiv Moscow. Bayern players averaged 7.19, Davies got 8.6 and was the 2nd best player on the pitch. Alaba didn't play, so Davies excelled having a decent player next to him.
  4. Union Berlin 1-1 Bayern. Bayern averaged 6.65, and Davies got a 6.3. Still the 2nd best defender on the night. Alaba got 6.2
  5. Bayer Leverkusen 1-2 Bayern. Bayern average was 6.76, Davies got a 6.9. No other defender got a higher rating. Alaba didn't play.
  6. Bayern 5-2 Mainz. Bayern average was 7.13. Davies got a 7.7. Alaba next to him got a 6.2.
  7. Gladbach 3-2 Bayern. Bayern average was 6.56, Davies got a 5.8 and Alaba a 6.4.

So Davies has ONE MATCH since last year where he was inferior to Alaba, and suddenly he's a one-season wonder, finished, crap whatever?!

Yesterday was probably the first time that Davies truly disappointed.

You guys are blinded. When he has an off-game, even his off-game is still better than most other players on the pitch. You can't expect him to score ratings of 8.0 every match. No one does. The real reason he's not at the same level as last season (he's still at a good level) is that he's having to play with a crappy Alaba next to him.
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby Fénix » Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:46 pm

#12 wrote:In the long run you will always fall behind if you fuck up so bad... It’s just not a sustainable model to have to score 3+ to win or at least draw a game... It won’t work...

Exactly.
The most successful clubs always have a stable, very stable or solid rock defence that concedes very small number of goals in the season, keep their net untouched very often and that helps them to dominate for years.

It's not just the case with Italian clubs or Mourinho and Simeone, but even with Barcelona in the last 16 years or Liverpool in the last 2 Premier League seasons, earlier Guardiola's Manchester City, Klopp's BVB, Heynckes' Bayern and so on.
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:07 pm

MUTU wrote:The hate on Davies is completely illogical to me. Let's understand the claims I've seen:

"He was the worst player on the pitch in the CL final." No, he wasn't. As per WhoScored, Bayern averaged 6.71 and PSG averaged 6.41. Davies got a 6.5. 5 players played in defence that day, and only Kimmich had a higher rating than Davies. Alaba got 6.3.

"He's been crap since proving that he was a one-season wonder." What the actual fuck?!?!
Let's see all matches he played for more than 7 minutes this season:

  1. Hoffenheim 4-1 Bayern. Bayern players averaged 6.26. Davies got 6.8 and was the second best Bayern player on the pitch. Alaba got 6.1.
  2. Bayern 4-3 Hertha. Bayern players averaged 6.87, Davies played as a winger and got 7.4 and was the 3rd best Bayern player on the pitch. Alaba got 6.0.
  3. Bayern 2-0 Lokomotiv Moscow. Bayern players averaged 7.19, Davies got 8.6 and was the 2nd best player on the pitch. Alaba didn't play, so Davies excelled having a decent player next to him.
  4. Union Berlin 1-1 Bayern. Bayern averaged 6.65, and Davies got a 6.3. Still the 2nd best defender on the night. Alaba got 6.2
  5. Bayer Leverkusen 1-2 Bayern. Bayern average was 6.76, Davies got a 6.9. No other defender got a higher rating. Alaba didn't play.
  6. Bayern 5-2 Mainz. Bayern average was 7.13. Davies got a 7.7. Alaba next to him got a 6.2.
  7. Gladbach 3-2 Bayern. Bayern average was 6.56, Davies got a 5.8 and Alaba a 6.4.

So Davies has ONE MATCH since last year where he was inferior to Alaba, and suddenly he's a one-season wonder, finished, crap whatever?!

Yesterday was probably the first time that Davies truly disappointed.

You guys are blinded. When he has an off-game, even his off-game is still better than most other players on the pitch. You can't expect him to score ratings of 8.0 every match. No one does. The real reason he's not at the same level as last season (he's still at a good level) is that he's having to play with a crappy Alaba next to him.
WhoScored is not the be all and end all...!

And Alaba played in Leverkusen, no matter where he touched you
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:09 pm

MUTU wrote:The hate on Davies is completely illogical to me. Let's understand the claims I've seen:

"He was the worst player on the pitch in the CL final." No, he wasn't. As per WhoScored, Bayern averaged 6.71 and PSG averaged 6.41. Davies got a 6.5. 5 players played in defence that day, and only Kimmich had a higher rating than Davies. Alaba got 6.3.

"He's been crap since proving that he was a one-season wonder." What the actual fuck?!?!
Let's see all matches he played for more than 7 minutes this season:

  1. Hoffenheim 4-1 Bayern. Bayern players averaged 6.26. Davies got 6.8 and was the second best Bayern player on the pitch. Alaba got 6.1.
  2. Bayern 4-3 Hertha. Bayern players averaged 6.87, Davies played as a winger and got 7.4 and was the 3rd best Bayern player on the pitch. Alaba got 6.0.
  3. Bayern 2-0 Lokomotiv Moscow. Bayern players averaged 7.19, Davies got 8.6 and was the 2nd best player on the pitch. Alaba didn't play, so Davies excelled having a decent player next to him.
  4. Union Berlin 1-1 Bayern. Bayern averaged 6.65, and Davies got a 6.3. Still the 2nd best defender on the night. Alaba got 6.2
  5. Bayer Leverkusen 1-2 Bayern. Bayern average was 6.76, Davies got a 6.9. No other defender got a higher rating. Alaba didn't play.
  6. Bayern 5-2 Mainz. Bayern average was 7.13. Davies got a 7.7. Alaba next to him got a 6.2.
  7. Gladbach 3-2 Bayern. Bayern average was 6.56, Davies got a 5.8 and Alaba a 6.4.

So Davies has ONE MATCH since last year where he was inferior to Alaba, and suddenly he's a one-season wonder, finished, crap whatever?!

Yesterday was probably the first time that Davies truly disappointed.

You guys are blinded. When he has an off-game, even his off-game is still better than most other players on the pitch. You can't expect him to score ratings of 8.0 every match. No one does. The real reason he's not at the same level as last season (he's still at a good level) is that he's having to play with a crappy Alaba next to him.
Or because he has no Perisic a hard worker in front of him
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:11 pm

Can't see tweet? Click here!

Nice to see Alaba get some blame for a change.
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:12 pm

#12 wrote:
MUTU wrote:The hate on Davies is completely illogical to me. Let's understand the claims I've seen:

"He was the worst player on the pitch in the CL final." No, he wasn't. As per WhoScored, Bayern averaged 6.71 and PSG averaged 6.41. Davies got a 6.5. 5 players played in defence that day, and only Kimmich had a higher rating than Davies. Alaba got 6.3.

"He's been crap since proving that he was a one-season wonder." What the actual fuck?!?!
Let's see all matches he played for more than 7 minutes this season:

  1. Hoffenheim 4-1 Bayern. Bayern players averaged 6.26. Davies got 6.8 and was the second best Bayern player on the pitch. Alaba got 6.1.
  2. Bayern 4-3 Hertha. Bayern players averaged 6.87, Davies played as a winger and got 7.4 and was the 3rd best Bayern player on the pitch. Alaba got 6.0.
  3. Bayern 2-0 Lokomotiv Moscow. Bayern players averaged 7.19, Davies got 8.6 and was the 2nd best player on the pitch. Alaba didn't play, so Davies excelled having a decent player next to him.
  4. Union Berlin 1-1 Bayern. Bayern averaged 6.65, and Davies got a 6.3. Still the 2nd best defender on the night. Alaba got 6.2
  5. Bayer Leverkusen 1-2 Bayern. Bayern average was 6.76, Davies got a 6.9. No other defender got a higher rating. Alaba didn't play.
  6. Bayern 5-2 Mainz. Bayern average was 7.13. Davies got a 7.7. Alaba next to him got a 6.2.
  7. Gladbach 3-2 Bayern. Bayern average was 6.56, Davies got a 5.8 and Alaba a 6.4.

So Davies has ONE MATCH since last year where he was inferior to Alaba, and suddenly he's a one-season wonder, finished, crap whatever?!

Yesterday was probably the first time that Davies truly disappointed.

You guys are blinded. When he has an off-game, even his off-game is still better than most other players on the pitch. You can't expect him to score ratings of 8.0 every match. No one does. The real reason he's not at the same level as last season (he's still at a good level) is that he's having to play with a crappy Alaba next to him.
WhoScored is not the be all and end all...!

And Alaba played in Leverkusen, no matter where he touched you


Apologies. He had a 6.3, amongst the very worst. In a nutshell, the only time Alaba didn't play in the same match as Davies, Davies got an 8.6. Poor kid can't run at his usual speed having to carry a black Beckenbauer and his sacks of money on his back.
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:16 pm

ramsej84 wrote:
MUTU wrote:The hate on Davies is completely illogical to me. Let's understand the claims I've seen:

"He was the worst player on the pitch in the CL final." No, he wasn't. As per WhoScored, Bayern averaged 6.71 and PSG averaged 6.41. Davies got a 6.5. 5 players played in defence that day, and only Kimmich had a higher rating than Davies. Alaba got 6.3.

"He's been crap since proving that he was a one-season wonder." What the actual fuck?!?!
Let's see all matches he played for more than 7 minutes this season:

  1. Hoffenheim 4-1 Bayern. Bayern players averaged 6.26. Davies got 6.8 and was the second best Bayern player on the pitch. Alaba got 6.1.
  2. Bayern 4-3 Hertha. Bayern players averaged 6.87, Davies played as a winger and got 7.4 and was the 3rd best Bayern player on the pitch. Alaba got 6.0.
  3. Bayern 2-0 Lokomotiv Moscow. Bayern players averaged 7.19, Davies got 8.6 and was the 2nd best player on the pitch. Alaba didn't play, so Davies excelled having a decent player next to him.
  4. Union Berlin 1-1 Bayern. Bayern averaged 6.65, and Davies got a 6.3. Still the 2nd best defender on the night. Alaba got 6.2
  5. Bayer Leverkusen 1-2 Bayern. Bayern average was 6.76, Davies got a 6.9. No other defender got a higher rating. Alaba didn't play.
  6. Bayern 5-2 Mainz. Bayern average was 7.13. Davies got a 7.7. Alaba next to him got a 6.2.
  7. Gladbach 3-2 Bayern. Bayern average was 6.56, Davies got a 5.8 and Alaba a 6.4.

So Davies has ONE MATCH since last year where he was inferior to Alaba, and suddenly he's a one-season wonder, finished, crap whatever?!

Yesterday was probably the first time that Davies truly disappointed.

You guys are blinded. When he has an off-game, even his off-game is still better than most other players on the pitch. You can't expect him to score ratings of 8.0 every match. No one does. The real reason he's not at the same level as last season (he's still at a good level) is that he's having to play with a crappy Alaba next to him.
Or because he has no Perisic a hard worker in front of him

Ridiculous on too many aspects. How do you make the correlation and extract that last season Davies played better with Perisic than without?
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:22 pm

MUTU wrote:
#12 wrote:
MUTU wrote:The hate on Davies is completely illogical to me. Let's understand the claims I've seen:

"He was the worst player on the pitch in the CL final." No, he wasn't. As per WhoScored, Bayern averaged 6.71 and PSG averaged 6.41. Davies got a 6.5. 5 players played in defence that day, and only Kimmich had a higher rating than Davies. Alaba got 6.3.

"He's been crap since proving that he was a one-season wonder." What the actual fuck?!?!
Let's see all matches he played for more than 7 minutes this season:

  1. Hoffenheim 4-1 Bayern. Bayern players averaged 6.26. Davies got 6.8 and was the second best Bayern player on the pitch. Alaba got 6.1.
  2. Bayern 4-3 Hertha. Bayern players averaged 6.87, Davies played as a winger and got 7.4 and was the 3rd best Bayern player on the pitch. Alaba got 6.0.
  3. Bayern 2-0 Lokomotiv Moscow. Bayern players averaged 7.19, Davies got 8.6 and was the 2nd best player on the pitch. Alaba didn't play, so Davies excelled having a decent player next to him.
  4. Union Berlin 1-1 Bayern. Bayern averaged 6.65, and Davies got a 6.3. Still the 2nd best defender on the night. Alaba got 6.2
  5. Bayer Leverkusen 1-2 Bayern. Bayern average was 6.76, Davies got a 6.9. No other defender got a higher rating. Alaba didn't play.
  6. Bayern 5-2 Mainz. Bayern average was 7.13. Davies got a 7.7. Alaba next to him got a 6.2.
  7. Gladbach 3-2 Bayern. Bayern average was 6.56, Davies got a 5.8 and Alaba a 6.4.

So Davies has ONE MATCH since last year where he was inferior to Alaba, and suddenly he's a one-season wonder, finished, crap whatever?!

Yesterday was probably the first time that Davies truly disappointed.

You guys are blinded. When he has an off-game, even his off-game is still better than most other players on the pitch. You can't expect him to score ratings of 8.0 every match. No one does. The real reason he's not at the same level as last season (he's still at a good level) is that he's having to play with a crappy Alaba next to him.
WhoScored is not the be all and end all...!

And Alaba played in Leverkusen, no matter where he touched you


Apologies. He had a 6.3, amongst the very worst. In a nutshell, the only time Alaba didn't play in the same match as Davies, Davies got an 8.6. Poor kid can't run at his usual speed having to carry a black Beckenbauer and his sacks of money on his back.
Your premise is laughable... Is Alaba responsible for 9/11 as well?

Alaba has been playing shit... So has Davies...

Might be he did better, but WhoScored is definitely still not the sole determining factor in this... And it‘s definitely not on Alaba Davies has declined...
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:25 pm

#12 wrote:Your premise is laughable... Is Alaba responsible for 9/11 as well?

Right, Mr. Tu Quoque, is that the best you can come up with?

#12 wrote:Alaba has been playing shit... So has Davies...

Alaba has been our worst player this season.
Davies one of the best. Everybody is playing poorer than last season, except for maybe Lewandowski, and Davies isn't immune to that.

#12 wrote:And it‘s definitely not on Alaba Davies has declined...

It partly is. If you look at the numbers I posted, the further he played from Alaba, the better he did. Coincedence? I think not.
When Alaba didn't play at all, Davies got 8.6.
When Davies played as a winger away from Alaba, Davies got a 7.4 and Alaba got a 6.0 without Davies covering up for him.
When Alaba played in midfield, Davies got a 6.9 and Alaba a 6.3.

There was only one match in which Davies played very well despite Alaba next to him, that was the penultimate match where he got 7.7 which some users here seem to have forgotten about.

Of course there's other factors involved, but Alaba is one of the big factors.
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:36 pm

Correlation is not Causation and you should definitely look up what tu quoque means...
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:40 pm

#12 wrote:Correlation is not Causation and you should definitely look up what tu quoque means...

It isn't if you don't want to believe it. Want to make a bet, just for kicks, about Davies having an excellent match next time Lucas plays as LCB and Davies as LB?

Davies isn't at a liberty to move upfield and provide the magic he showed last season, because the moment he does that left back side is extremely vulnerable with a shaky Alaba. And when he does, he gets caught out, because Alaba is not the kind of defender who will rush at the attacker and force him to slow down (allowing Davies to run back and recover), but the kind who actually jogs backwards towards Neuer. Therefore opposing right winger are at a liberty to keep running towards goal without giving a chance to Davies to recover. Davies as a result is having to attack less, limiting his greatest weapon.

Lucas would be an infinitely better partner for Davies, and you don't need to be a tactical genius to understand this.
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:59 pm

Yeah I still very much doubt we would concede less goals with a headless chicken...
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:25 pm

MUTU wrote:You guys are blinded. When he has an off-game, even his off-game is still better than most other players on the pitch. You can't expect him to score ratings of 8.0 every match. No one does. The real reason he's not at the same level as last season (he's still at a good level) is that he's having to play with a crappy Alaba next to him.


Yup. There are very few moments where I’ve said Davies should have done better there. Most chances aren’t coming down his side. He’s not being as flashy up front as last season, but last season he was probably the GOAT and atm we need him to help defensively more than anything.
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Re: [2021-01-08] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:31 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
MUTU wrote:You guys are blinded. When he has an off-game, even his off-game is still better than most other players on the pitch. You can't expect him to score ratings of 8.0 every match. No one does. The real reason he's not at the same level as last season (he's still at a good level) is that he's having to play with a crappy Alaba next to him.


Yup. There are very few moments where I’ve said Davies should have done better there. Most chances aren’t coming down his side. He’s not being as flashy up front as last season, but last season he was probably the GOAT and atm we need him to help defensively more than anything.
He misplaces insanely easy passes, missing teammates only a few meters away... He‘s not playing well, but it’s not his fault...

It’s beyond an embarrassment Bayern Munich needs a 19yo to carry them...
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
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