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[2017-11-25] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

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What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:30 pm

Borussia Mönchengladbach will win
0
No votes
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Bayern Munich will win
5
100%
 
Total votes : 5

Re: [2017-11-25] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:02 pm

VAR is always at the referee's discretion, so I would say it is entirely up to the referee. In your example, however, I find it highly unlikely that the referee would choose to consult VAR, but if he did, I don't think he would cancel it. It is similar to advantage play. Although no free kick was awarded to team B they did get the ball and were able to begin an action from roughly the same position.
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Re: [2017-11-25] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby America USA » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:46 pm

MUTU wrote:
America USA wrote:
IMG.jpeg
Here I have a few screenshots of that long ball Vestergaard made to Hazard. At the time the pass was made, Hazard was offside. His right leg (knee and shin in particular), head and left shoulder were in an offside position. The rules say that if any part of the body from which a player can score is offside, then the flag must be raised. Therefore, when only hands are offside the flag is not raised since it is presumed that you cannot score from your hand (that’s why Lacazette was NOT given offside last week in the NLD for the second goal since only his hand was offside)

Now any reasonable person knows that players CAN score from or control the ball with their head, shoulder and knees, hence if the rules were objectively enforced and the VAR was rightly used, Hazard should have been flagged offside.

Yes it could be argued that Hazard controlled the ball with his feet and not the body parts offside, but that is a flawed contention because goals are disallowed even when a non-involved player in an offside position is deemed to have obstructed or affected the play. Surely here a significant part of the player’s body was offside.
So when the flag is raised for lesser violations, it ought to have gone up here!

Here you can see both Kimmich and Süle are in line and where Hazard is. Look for yourself and make up your own mind.

Did you seriously take a screenshot when the ball has already left the passer's feet and compared Suele's feet to Hazard's shoulder using a crooked line? :crazy:

Even if you had to take the screenshot 2-3 frames earlier when the ball was still at the passer's feet, the angle is inconclusive for the purposes of judging whether or not an offside position exists, which if it exists (Note that I'm not saying it doesn't) is millimetric. The reason is that Suele is well built and his shoulder is further towards goal than his foot.


Here is another screenshot of just one frame before the ones I posted above and still the body parts I mentioned earlier (right shin, right knee, left shoulder and head) appear to be offside. In other words, a significant portion of his body was offside.
Hazard-Offside.JPG

As for the crooked line, that’s the best you can do on IPhone editor. This time I’ve used Windows 10 Paint on my laptop to draw the line.

I can post the highlights link (rare to find one because most have been taken down due to copyright issues) if you want, but listen to it on mute because the British commentators, as biased as they usually are against Bayern, simply brush it under the rug and don’t even have a second look (or ask for a second look) at that frame and just go with the decision. On the other hand if the shoe was on the other foot and it was a Bayern player instead of Hazard in a similar position, there would be numerous replays and lots of “close call” comments by the commentators.

Also @MUTU your question was very appropriately answered by FCBM in the post above mine.
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Re: [2017-11-25] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:36 am

Still not convinced. The white line you drew is not parallel to the grass stripes. Furthermore you are still assuming Suele's feet are the closest to goal while I still claim it's Suele's shoulder.

EDIT: scratch that. Your screenshot did convince me, that Hazard was NOT offside. I just held a paper on the screen, parallel to the grass stripes, with a pixel of Suele's foot showing (despite, I claim is not the closest to goal) and no part of Hazard showed up.
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Re: [2017-11-25] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:29 am

It does seem onside to me too, but a close call.
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Re: [2017-11-25] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby tflags » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:49 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:It does seem onside to me too, but a close call.


Regular commercial cameras under VAR use, unlike those used by goal line technology, suffer from distortions specially towards the edges. You might never know what was the right call.
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Re: [2017-11-25] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby aterford » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:17 pm

tflags wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:It does seem onside to me too, but a close call.


Regular commercial cameras under VAR use, unlike those used by goal line technology, suffer from distortions specially towards the edges. You might never know what was the right call.


Yup, and generally even worse on wide shots like the one pictured
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Re: [2017-11-25] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:21 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:It does seem onside to me too, but a close call.

Yes, definitely close. Too close, in fact, for VAR to be able to take a timely decision on, even if it were offside. VAR shouldn't interrupt unless they were sure of the referee's decision being incorrect.
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Re: [2017-11-25] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby pyrasur » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:53 pm

And benefit of the doubt goes to the attacker. Unfortunate in this case but such is life
而剑法的最高境界,则是手中无剑,心中也无剑,是以大胸怀,包容一切。那便是不杀,便是和平。-英雄
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Re: [2017-11-25] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby JANCKER » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:06 am

Jupp is an infiltrated agent by Gladbach...
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Re: [2017-11-25] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby Paphlagonian » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:32 pm

JANCKER wrote:Jupp is an infiltrated agent by Gladbach...


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