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[2008-09-20] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

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What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:55 pm

Bayern Munich will win
14
88%
It will end in a draw
2
13%
Werder Bremen will win
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 16

Re: Bayern x Bremen: WHAT WAS THAT ALL ABOUT?!

Postby MrLinky » Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:04 pm

pavlos21 wrote:we don't have an AM and rensing is like a cancer for the team i never liked him.thats all.its just a bad game we continue and we hope that the team will find a way out now with ribery return.



Its true that Rensing did look really insecure yesterday but I dont think he had any fault except maybe the fifth goal I think it was but that was at the point when the game was pretty much "over" anyway , what's he supposed to do when the defense is all over the place and lets him alone like that ?
Besides that I dont agree with most of you saying ahh Ribery is gonna be back , now everything will be better , a team like FC Bayern should be able
to play at its best even without the main player , its true that he's probably one of the best 5 players on the planet right now and really important but I still think
we should be able to win games and be competitive without him even in the highest levels and against top German and European clubs , we still
have 21 other players in our squad . :wink:
To be honest I dont like all of this dependence on Ribery at all , what are we gonna be do if he gets injured again or is totally out of form at some point in the season , after all he's just human too , anyway this is getting way off topic but I had to mention this . :)
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Re: [2008-09-20] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby MaCk0y » Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:55 pm

I think that this game was one of those games where everything gets pretty bad for the team (aka not your day match.) These happen to every team every season like last year's happened against Zenit but this season happened really early and in the Bundesliga. Well, if it's the case, and hopefully there won't be anymore of these, it means that the worst passed already (even though I would have preferred at least get trashed by 5 goals AWAY from home.)
It's just a theory! :wink:
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Re: [2008-09-20] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby thirtyone » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:14 pm

Well this is one of the first times I've been glad I can't watch games on Saturdays. I play football myself instead, which is of a sufficient standard to rarely yield scorelines like 5-2! Anyway a good win against Hannover and we can forget about all this, the Bochum game is also a chance to build confidence and thump someone.

Oh and Borowski's goals were class, how can he be dropped after a brace!
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Re: [2008-09-20] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby MrLinky » Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:40 pm

We got lucky things went our way today , Hamburg and Dortmund lost too .
So the table isnt looking that terrible , we are on the 8th place but thet first placed team Schalke only have 3 points more than us . :)
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Re: [2008-09-20] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby FCBinNYC » Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:48 pm

Well that was embarrassing, waited til now to post to process it and see what you all thought. Here are my thoughts: 1) Oddo should be starting, whether it's 3-5-2 or 4-4-2. He was our main creative force once he came on, much better than Lell. 2) Borowski in, Van Bommel out! The scoresheets speak for themselves, and I'm talking about the other teams, not just Bayern. I think Ottl has been great in the 3-5-2, playing the same formation with Van Bommel has been way less impressive. 3) Breno, anyone? I know that the "big 3" at the back have been ok recently, but after yesterday I see no reason to not give the kid a chance at the expense of Van Buyten or Lucio. (Probably Van so that there's someone to talk to him in Portuguese.)

I find it strange that when the team wins no one has anything to say but this happens and suddenly everyone's back on the whole "we need to sell x and buy y" trip again. Selling Ze? Come on now, have you watched him this season aside from yesterday? (or any season for that matter?!) Not happening. And why didn't Ribery rush back and risk further injury for this game? Are you really asking that? I'd much rather have him sit out BUNDESLIGA MATCHDAY FIVE, a time of the season when no team wins anything, and be ready for LYON IN THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE NEXT WEEK than risk him being out for any further extended period of time. Sure, Bremen is a big game, but given the time of year it's got nothing on other big games I want to see the team in later this season.

So yeah that sucked, but I'm not worried. Every big team has a game or two like this every season, where they just get absolutely crushed against everyone's expectations, as mackoy pointed out. Last season it was in the UEFA Cup semi-final, so I'd rather have it happen now than a few months from now. Solutions will be found and we will be better for it. As MrLinky said, Schalke are only 3 points ahead so it's really not that bad. I think Der Kaiser said Klinsmann's best option last night was to have a few Oktoberfest big beers and forget about it, and I'm with him. Of course, there's work to be done, but I refuse to say that there's any more to this performance than everyone getting up on the wrong side of the bed, it was just that much of a freak result. Sure, Bremen are good, but if the only fixture for the rest of the season was Bayern v Bremen every weekend, you would not see that scoreline again. That's a fact. At least there's the cup this week, so there's no time to dwell on this loss, we have to look for the next win!

P.S. It was nice to see that Pizarro didn't celebrate when he scored. For all his shortcomings in front of goal, I still like him!
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Re: [2008-09-20] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby Guard Dog » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:19 am

One of those seriously bad "off" days where nothing seems to fall in your favour.

We're a very good side, but not entirely strength. There are weaknesses. I think the 3-5-2 can only be played once we have confidence that each position is filled by a worthy player.

Must be going in as underdogs V Lyon now ...

Ouch!
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Re: [2008-09-20] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby Bayernbazi » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:27 am

The trashing seems to have affected the bayern site too. I haven't been able to access it since after the match, don't know if this is only my problem but the last time that this happened the next thing I know - Magath was sacked :shock:

Apart from Beckenbauer recommending Kilnsi to wash everything down a couple of Bier steins at the Oktoberfest has anyone else heard any news ? In Bild Rensing seems to be under heavy fire and they go as far as mentioning that fans are asking for Kahn's comeback !!!

Don't know if this is good just a couple of days before a critical Pokal game.
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Re: [2008-09-20] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby MUTU » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:28 am

Bayernbazi wrote:The trashing seems to have affected the bayern site too. I haven't been able to access it since after the match, don't know if this is only my problem


Works fine for me.

Bayernbazi wrote:In Bild Rensing seems to be under heavy fire and they go as far as mentioning that fans are asking for Kahn's comeback !!!


He deserves heavy fire. He's got a lot left to learn. But as for asking for Kahn's comeback, that's just stupid.
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Re: [2008-09-20] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby thulkazal » Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:18 am

mmm dont work for me too,the site of fc bayern T_T
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Re: [2008-09-20] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby MaCk0y » Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:27 pm

It hasn't been working the day before the match for me! And not even the official Bundesliga site.
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Re: [2008-09-20] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby Bayernbazi » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:33 pm

Oh I thought is affecting everyone. So from what I see, there might be something blocking access from certain IPs. I've tried through http://www.youhide.com and it loads, very slowly, but it loads !!!
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Re: [2008-09-20] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby MUTU » Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:15 pm

Bayernbazi wrote:Oh I thought is affecting everyone. So from what I see, there might be something blocking access from certain IPs. I've tried through http://www.youhide.com and it loads, very slowly, but it loads !!!


Potentially there was a DNS change and your ISP is still caching the old IP.
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Re: [2008-09-20] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby MaCk0y » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:24 pm

Bayernbazi wrote:Oh I thought is affecting everyone. So from what I see, there might be something blocking access from certain IPs. I've tried through http://www.youhide.com and it loads, very slowly, but it loads !!!


10x loaded slowly for me as well.
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Re: [2008-09-20] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby Jorge » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:50 pm

FCBinNYC great points!

IMO we should not be talking about selling or buying, this same roster has proven that it can win and we need to fix what it is wrong. If we find the right reliable formula for the next 2 1/2 months then we can start thinking about unloading in January those who do not have a present and/or a future.

You can blame Rensing, the defenders, the defensive midfielders, the 3-5-2 and point fingers to every player in the field, all these are valid arguments, but there is one thing beyond all that: the team failed as a whole because all these reasons, some of these reasons and other reasons. At times I thought I was watching the Zenit-Bayern game last season when we got spanked.

Here is what I believe is the main problem: Mark Van Bommel. In a 3-5-2 formation the DM position is paramount. This is the player that has to set the pace and transitions, this the player that has to go the right or the left to cover those big holes left by the wingers (Lahm and Lell/Oddo) when we are caught on counter attack on the flanks or step back to a CD role if one of the two Side CD (Lucio or Van Buyten) moves to the flank to cover there. This is the player that has to break the opponent's play before it reaches the backline (e.g. stopping Diego) or go back to cover the CD when Micho or Lucio surges forward. Van Bommel failed in all this, he was a useless lazy discordant element more worried in not getting yellow carded than actually playing. It is not the 3-5-2 system what failed: It was the 3-5-2 system with Mark Van Bommel! MVB is the reason why we had those big neutral areas close to our backline in which Bremen players stormed through. Where is the leadership a captian supposed to show? Does he needs to watch videos of Effenberg to figure out what a leader is, or Jens Jeremies can show him how to play his position, if he wants to look abroad look at your countryman: Edgar Davis as an example, if you want to look elsewhere watch Claude Makelele at his best, this is the type of DM that we need, let me remind you Kahn's magic words: We are not Marseille or Fiorentina: we are like Madrid or Milan. We need a DM with class, presence and authority who knows how to play tough without being dirty. Mark van Bommel is pathetic!

Do we have a replacement as right now? Yes, Andreas Ottl. He played 100 times better than MVB when he was given a chance, he is only 23 but he has been in the Bayern system for 6 years now, as right now he can perform better than MVB and if he gains more confidence and keeps maturing he can be or DM for the next decade.

The only other player who seems to be in MVB's state of mind is Sosa: pathetic as well. I will use Kroos instead of him.

The rest of the arguments here are still valid, but secondary. Oddo might be better than Lell but Lell is not that bad, Borowski might need to be in the starting line-up or not but he plays at a decent level and so forth. As for the strikers: IMO they did not perform that bad, they had good chances, some created, some because they managed to positioned themselves for opportunities and that is what they supposed to do but you will always run into games when the strikers do not find the back of the net because football has a percentage of luck in all aspects. Ribery wouldn’t have changed the outcome of this game if he was fielded. IMO it was a good decision to postpone his return.

For the sake of Bayern: Mark Van Bommel is no leader and should be stripped from his captaincy and benched.
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Re: [2008-09-20] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby thulkazal » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:59 pm

well sosa was ok when enter vs werder,gived that pass for oddo(oddo for borowski and goal) which was nice thou.Hope this season be critical for him (to be or not to be).But again that guy got so much flair but when I watch him playing football he is like he dont wanna be there T_T


About Ottl he should be in first team but ...


About captain Bastian would be nice ... He is bayern kid and when i watched this match vs Werder he cared a lot coz result while Bommel was w/e

Wonder how Kahn or Effenberg would act xD after 5-0
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