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[2021-03-06] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Discussions on the German Bundesliga matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:30 pm

Bayern Munich will win
1
100%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Borussia Dortmund will win
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 1

Re: [2021-03-06] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:14 pm

Plus as you mentioned the ref had to go and check.... for that foul and pen on Coman
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Re: [2021-03-06] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby MUTU » Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:12 pm

Ben Gardner wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:Re how we scored the 3-2 , do you guys think that it was a foul on Can?
Yest I thought not but this morning I was like yes it was.


I didn’t see it again but nothing stood out as a foul to me

Nah, situations like that happens all the time in every game, sometimes the ref gives the call and sometimes he's not, this time Bayern happened to score some sequences later when the situation was well passed. But the frustration is understandable but proves nothing.

And Hitz in the first, he clearly hits Goretzka, not intentionally, but never the less hits him, and I wouldn't have complained if that would have resulted in a penalty. But goalies are favored by the refs.



Yes goalkeepers are given the benefit of the doubt by referees traditionally, but let's face it there's VAR now, so is the "I'm not sure, so let me judge in favour of the defence" still a valid argument?
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Re: [2021-03-06] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby Ben Gardner » Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:06 pm

MUTU wrote:Yes goalkeepers are given the benefit of the doubt by referees traditionally, but let's face it there's VAR now, so is the "I'm not sure, so let me judge in favour of the defence" still a valid argument?

My guess would be that VAR might have looked at the situation and decided in favour of Hitz because he hit the ball first, then Goretzka's head, and therefore no penalty. Not saying it was the right call, but that is the only plausible explanation I can think of, without going conspiratorial.
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Re: [2021-03-06] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby MUTU » Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:11 pm

Ben Gardner wrote:
MUTU wrote:Yes goalkeepers are given the benefit of the doubt by referees traditionally, but let's face it there's VAR now, so is the "I'm not sure, so let me judge in favour of the defence" still a valid argument?

My guess would be that VAR might have looked at the situation and decided in favour of Hitz because he hit the ball first, then Goretzka's head, and therefore no penalty. Not saying it was the right call, but that is the only plausible explanation I can think of, without going conspiratorial.

He did? They didn't show it too much. I felt, during the match with the adrenaline pumping, that Goretzka headed the ball and Hitz punched Goretzka in the head without touching the ball at all. But I guess you may be right, I'll need to see it again.
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Re: [2021-03-06] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby MUTU » Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:16 pm

The guys at wahretabelle.de don't even deem the Goretzka/Hitz worth discussing. Guess Ben Gardner was right.
However, they have also voted for that handball by Reus that should have been a penalty, that Bayern's goals were valid as well as the penalty in favour of Bayern.
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Re: [2021-03-06] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby #12 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:17 pm

MUTU wrote:
Ben Gardner wrote:
MUTU wrote:Yes goalkeepers are given the benefit of the doubt by referees traditionally, but let's face it there's VAR now, so is the "I'm not sure, so let me judge in favour of the defence" still a valid argument?

My guess would be that VAR might have looked at the situation and decided in favour of Hitz because he hit the ball first, then Goretzka's head, and therefore no penalty. Not saying it was the right call, but that is the only plausible explanation I can think of, without going conspiratorial.

He did? They didn't show it too much. I felt, during the match with the adrenaline pumping, that Goretzka headed the ball and Hitz punched Goretzka in the head without touching the ball at all. But I guess you may be right, I'll need to see it again.
In general, I don‘t think conspiracies hold either way yesterday... But we were DEFINITELY not favored...
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Re: [2021-03-06] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby Ben Gardner » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:01 pm

#12 wrote:I don‘t think conspiracies hold either way yesterday... But we were DEFINITELY not favored...

Conspiracies are funny in general.........but when people actually start to believe in them and act accordingly, they can get really dangerous.
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Re: [2021-03-06] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby aterford » Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:57 pm

#12 wrote:
YlonenXabi wrote:I'm happy with the performance but I have to say that we were lucky with two factors

1- Sancho's absence
2- Dortmund's coach seemed to be more interested on their CL game next week

But apart from that I liked how Flick readapted our tactics in defense and the way our team bounced back after conceding two early goals against a strong opposition.

Just because we conceded 2 goals in 10 minutes doesn't mean that we made the same errors than on previous matches. There's not much you can do when someone like Haaland is on fire.

I disagree with all the criticism that Alaba is receving lately. I think he had a very solid performance last night. And if someone is expecting Upamecano to play flawlessly every game then good luck with that, but he will have brainfarts here and there just like Alaba and Boateng.

Keep in mind that on Flick's system, our CB's play more of a CM role. That means that their main attribute is not defending but playing from the back hence the need for someone like Alaba, Boateng or Upamecano. And apart from that they are exposed and with little support most of the times. Meaning that any error will lead to a dangerous counter attack.

Any other CB playing for a different team can make more errors but those won't be so noticeable. And to be honest every football tactic has it's strengths and weakenesses and I'm happy with the way we play and win trophies

Lucas is a much better defender than Alaba or the current version of Boateng, we all know that, but like I said defending is not the main attribute a CB needs to have in Flick's system. Alaba and Boateng not only allow us to play a high line, they are also world class when playing from the back and that leads to very promising attacking opportunities. Flick prioritizes that rather than having a compact defense.
2 - you really think so? Can you elaborate? Cause I can’t quite follow...

As for the discussion above: yes, it could well be a foul... And I think it can be seen -and called- either way... But so can the handball, probably... And given the way he conducted his job yesterday, a foul call simply would not have been in line with the rest of the game... Also, I think it was ineligible for VAR checking since Dortmund regained possession shortly thereafter again... Otherwise, maybe VAR WOULD habe fucked us (not a fan of conspiracies but these things tend to ne decided not in our favor...)


Given that Dortmund subbed Haaland out with what amounted to only "precaution"...suggests as such to me. He had a cut yeah, but let's be real, if that were a do-or-die match he'd 100% have stayed in. So it's a pragmatic decision (it sounds like Guerreiro probably *could* have played too perhaps but were playing it safe, but I might have read that wrong).

On the whole I think if Dortmund had to pick a spot to drop points it was probably the match for which they could most 'afford' to lose points. For starters, they're out of the title race, so it doesn't really hurt or help them in that regard. But they're still in the UCL, and though I don't think anyone would consider them odds-on to win it, progressing further is still always better.
On top of that, Frankfurt, who are probably their main rival for a UCL spot, they have a tough schedule ahead. Dortmund had Bayern, but then Hertha and Koln (14/15th) while Frankfurt had Stuttgart (10), RBL (2), Union (7, I think). Even before the match, there was some logic in prioritizing the Sevilla tie and making up ground in the coming weeks. Frankfurt dropping points to Stuttgart helps vindicate that decision a little bit. Even with a loss to Bayern, if Dortmund beat Hertha and Koln as they should they'll be on 45 points. Meanwhile Frankfurt...if they drop points to RBL and/or Union then there's a decent chance that in a couple weeks Frankfurt might find themselves on anywhere from 44-47 points, so when they play head to head (3 April I think) BVB will have a chance to beat them to go leap-frog ahead.

Of course you take points where you can get them, and it's not as simple as a black-white decision, but given the choice between dropping points vs Bayern but advancing vs Sevilla OR winning vs Bayern but getting eliminated by Sevilla...they'd rather take the former.
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Re: [2021-03-06] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby sherpthederp » Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:50 am

MUTU wrote:
Ben Gardner wrote:
MUTU wrote:Yes goalkeepers are given the benefit of the doubt by referees traditionally, but let's face it there's VAR now, so is the "I'm not sure, so let me judge in favour of the defence" still a valid argument?

My guess would be that VAR might have looked at the situation and decided in favour of Hitz because he hit the ball first, then Goretzka's head, and therefore no penalty. Not saying it was the right call, but that is the only plausible explanation I can think of, without going conspiratorial.

He did? They didn't show it too much. I felt, during the match with the adrenaline pumping, that Goretzka headed the ball and Hitz punched Goretzka in the head without touching the ball at all. But I guess you may be right, I'll need to see it again.

Hitz for sure got the ball and then punched Goretzka with the follow through. The way I see it is a clone of the Neuer Higuain World Cup knee to the head. Not a penalty but an unfortunate result of a collision with a goalkeeper who has every right to clear that ball.
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Re: [2021-03-06] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby Ben Gardner » Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:12 am

sherpthederp wrote:Hitz for sure got the ball and then punched Goretzka with the follow through. The way I see it is a clone of the Neuer Higuain World Cup knee to the head. Not a penalty but an unfortunate result of a collision with a goalkeeper who has every right to clear that ball.

Meaning that the goalie can get away with (almost) anything in the airspace as long as he punches/hits the ball before punches/hits any opponent player regardless the outcome of that challenge. Then I Guess both the ref and the possible VAR check made the right call.
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Re: [2021-03-06] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby MUTU » Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:05 am

Ben Gardner wrote:
sherpthederp wrote:Hitz for sure got the ball and then punched Goretzka with the follow through. The way I see it is a clone of the Neuer Higuain World Cup knee to the head. Not a penalty but an unfortunate result of a collision with a goalkeeper who has every right to clear that ball.

Meaning that the goalie can get away with (almost) anything in the airspace as long as he punches/hits the ball before punches/hits any opponent player regardless the outcome of that challenge. Then I Guess both the ref and the possible VAR check made the right call.

Yeah OK, I thought Goretzka got the ball, hence why I was asking for red and a penalty. So the ref was right.
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