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2021/22 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Discussions on the German Bundesliga matches.
 

Re: 2021/22 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby Ben Gardner » Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:04 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
Ben Gardner wrote:Leipzig begun their season with a loss at Mainz.
Don’t think they’ll put up another serious challenge this year. It’ll be between us two I think.

No they don't, and neither do we, that's for sure. It was funny hearing the commentator speak about Dortmund as a challenger to Bayern. That's hilarious :-)

Ottomeister87 wrote:Martina Reus angry again? :P

Can't tell, hardly saw him through out the whole game.
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Re: 2021/22 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:49 pm

Great goal by Nmecha
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
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Re: 2021/22 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:51 pm

My would you look at Sommer? WC against Bayern and already looking bad in 2.5 goals today…
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
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Re: 2021/22 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Sat Aug 21, 2021 6:01 pm

#12 wrote:Great goal by Nmecha

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Re: 2021/22 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Sat Aug 21, 2021 6:03 pm

#12 wrote:My would you look at Sommer? WC against Bayern and already looking bad in 2.5 goals today…


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Re: 2021/22 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:39 pm

MUTU wrote:
#12 wrote:Great goal by Nmecha

Nmecha is going to be the Saviour of the Ger NT

Otoh Moukoko that of Cameroon
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Re: 2021/22 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:06 am

U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
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Re: 2021/22 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby zozon » Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:50 am

Arguing with a stupid BVB fan, I came up with a striking stat.

Since the season 2010-2011 to 2019-2020:

- Dortmund has 8 titles (2 league, 3 cups and 3 supercups)
Spent on transfers - 781.6m
Transfer income - 880,5m

- Bayern has 26 titles (9 league, 5 cups, 6 supercups, 2 CL, 2 Uefa Super Cup, 2 Club World Cup)
Spent on transfers - 786.2m
Transfer income - 380m

So, for a difference of spent on transfers money of 4.6m - Bayern has 18 more titles in the same time period.
:lol: :shock:
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Re: 2021/22 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:07 pm

But what matters is the net spend

This season RB Leipzig have spent twice as much as Bayern. But their net spend is 10 times lower
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Re: 2021/22 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:52 pm

zozon wrote:Arguing with a stupid BVB fan, I came up with a striking stat.

Since the season 2010-2011 to 2019-2020:

- Dortmund has 8 titles (2 league, 3 cups and 3 supercups)
Spent on transfers - 781.6m
Transfer income - 880,5m

- Bayern has 26 titles (9 league, 5 cups, 6 supercups, 2 CL, 2 Uefa Super Cup, 2 Club World Cup)
Spent on transfers - 786.2m
Transfer income - 380m

So, for a difference of spent on transfers money of 4.6m - Bayern has 18 more titles in the same time period.
:shock:



Another way of seeing it is that Dortmund made 99m profit from transfers and won 8 titles.
In order to win virtually 3x more titles, Bayern had to make a LOSS of 406m on transfers.

Sure, if BVB spent 505m more on transfers you'd expect them to win much more titles.

Your stat is completely misleading in a purposeful way because you intentionally try to hide the fact that BVB buy and sell more players than Bayern as far as quantity goes.
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Re: 2021/22 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby zozon » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:38 pm

MUTU wrote:Another way of seeing it is that Dortmund made 99m profit from transfers and won 8 titles.
In order to win virtually 3x more titles, Bayern had to make a LOSS of 406m on transfers.


And another way of seeing it is that winning titles ACTUALLY exposes your club (to people, potential new fans, players and coaches) globally and brings you more money from sponsors, fans, TV rights, winning the competitions like the Champions League (thus getting the UEFA money), Club World Cup etc.
Or you totally forgot that part as an economic and football "expert"?

My guess is that the difference of 18 titles between Bayern and BVB absolutely covers the gap from Bayern's loss of 406m on transfers.
Bayern had a ~130m income just from the CL win in 2020. There goes 1/3 of the loss.
And where are the other 17 titles and the money they bring in, directly or indirectly?

And another food for thought - If Bayern were actually losing on transfers bought/sold that much, they wouldn't post a profit every goddamn year.
Winning titles actually brings you money (in any way), so Bayern can post that much desired profit year after a year.
Imagine Bayern not winning a single title for 2-3-4 seasons, but having a positive transfer balance. Do you think the yearly profit will be like it is?
Dont kid yourself.

Go and ask the BVB executives if they would trade their whole finance operation with Bayern's current and future trophy cabinets (and the finance potential they bring). I'm pretty sure it will be an empty office in 2 seconds.

MUTU wrote:Your stat is completely misleading in a purposeful way because you intentionally try to hide the fact that BVB buy and sell more players than Bayern as far as quantity goes.


P.S Its not "my stat", nor I want to "intentionally try to hide" anything? What are you on today?
Its just real numbers (via Transfermarkt). I even pointed out both team's transfers income - which clearly showed that difference.
So what exactly am I trying to hide is beyond me.
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Re: 2021/22 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:48 pm

It's not real numbers. It's a very skewed conclusion on numbers that are neither officially confirmed nor include most factors, such as agent fees, sign on fees, performance based bonuses, future transfer percentage etc.

You took one factor and tried to reach a conclusion with it. It simply does not hold.

To bring it into perspective, the numbers you are using claim Goretzka having joined Bayern for free, but Bayern paid around 18m in order to sign Goretzka.

If you want to compare them, use net spend and then add in all the other factors I've listed and you'll see that Bayern spent considerably more money than BVB.
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Re: 2021/22 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby aterford » Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:15 pm

I don't know that net spend really paints a super accurate picture either, as it's going to be largely influenced by the club's "philosophy" or manner of operating. Dortmund know that they are not a "destination club" or "final stop" for most top players. A big factor in the players they are able to sign is an understanding that they will offer said player plenty of minutes for development and will not stand in the way when that player wants to move on. In other words: it's more or less baked in to their transfer philosophy that they will look for talents they can sign for cheap, get a couple of years out of, and flip for a massive profit thereafter.

On the other hand, Bayern are certainly much closer to a "destination club" and are viewed as a "last stop" for a lot of players. And generally speaking there's a different expectation when it comes to winning titles - in this way there are often less opportunities for youngsters here than there would be there. (We saw this just recently with the reports about Haaland, and it has been the case in the past that we've pursued the same players BVB did but could not offer them the same playing time due to already having more competition/better players in a given position)

And so just by nature we are going to be less likely to be a "Selling club" and are often buying players that are much less likely to be seen as "flippable assets". That's not to say we always get it right (I've said before we don't do a great job when we do choose to sell), but all that to say that BVB pretty much *needs* to continue signing and selling these sort of players to maintain the way they want to operate, so by nature they are almost certainly going to have a better net spending balance than we are. But I don't think that in and of itself is particularly meaningful in this context.

At the same time I would also agree with the notion that comparing our spending to Dortmund's doesn't really paint a super meaningful picture either. Money begets money and Bayern have had the luxury of being top-dog for quite some time now. Don't get me wrong - that position was earned, not given - but in the current game it's a lot easier to "stay rich" than it is to "get rich," so to speak. Dortmund are always going to have to spend more on incoming transfers than us if they want to have any shot at catching up (or at least remaining competitive). And I think there are a number of systemic advantages to being the top club in the country (and for maintaining that status for so long). As MUTU points out, free is not always REALLY free. This is something you'll see other clubs complain about fairly frequently. For example (nothing specific, it's made up) a player could have a 50m buyout clause but just a year left on contract. We tell him that we'll pay him 20m cash to join us for free. The player accepts because...it's 20m cash - and he gets to move to the top club in the country. The club doesn't get anything, whereas triggering his buyout clause would've got the club 50m. In these ways we "save" money where other clubs are often unable to do so. And I'm not saying that's bad or wrong or illegal or anything like that BUT it is a factor that deserves consideration.

Anyways, all that to say that the short of it is that even if we aren't spending as much on strictly incoming transfers as other clubs we're still at a tremendous financial advantage in many ways and other clubs are pretty much going to have to spend a lot more (incoming) by nature if they just want to try and maintain pace, at minimum.
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Re: 2021/22 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby carlota1 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:27 pm

wir werden es wieder tun
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Re: 2021/22 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:02 am

Bundesliga down to 4th in EUFA league ratings...

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations ... /#/yr/2022
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