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2019/20 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

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Re: 2019/20 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby Fénix » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:58 pm

Incredible what has been going on in the Bundesliga for the past 15 years.
München 1860, Bochum, Nürnberg, HSV, Kaiserslautern, Stuttgart, Hannover... now Werder is about to join the club of fallen great traditional clubs.

Only in Germany. Those are huge losses for German football, but what can you do... They are incompetent and with lack of vision, foreign investors/owners can't take control of them, I bet they don't have any interest in German clubs even if there would exist a possibility to buy 70-100% shares. :roll:

But I don't believe that new clubs that have shown up and replaced the mentioned ones would also manage to reach the top, jeopardize Bayern and one day become international respected or top clubs. :|

I really don't see any model that can bring back all or at least 60% of those clubs back to their most successful and glorious years in their history. Modern football and footballers can't even stand BVB.
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Re: 2019/20 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby tuscanybayern » Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 pm

Fénix wrote:Incredible what has been going on in the Bundesliga for the past 15 years.
München 1860, Bochum, Nürnberg, HSV, Kaiserslautern, Stuttgart, Hannover... now Werder is about to join the club of fallen great traditional clubs.

Only in Germany. Those are huge losses for German football, but what can you do... They are incompetent and with lack of vision, foreign investors/owners can't take control of them, I bet they don't have any interest in German clubs even if there would exist a possibility to buy 70-100% shares. :roll:

But I don't believe that new clubs that have shown up and replaced the mentioned ones would also manage to reach the top, jeopardize Bayern and one day become international respected or top clubs. :|

I really don't see any model that can bring back all or at least 60% of those clubs back to their most successful and glorious years in their history. Modern football and footballers can't even stand BVB.


The main problem is, the club with the best management after Bayern is probably Leverkusen....and this says it all. They have been very consistent in the last two decades, and although they did not win a single trophy, they always played UCL/EL bar 1 or 2 seasons. BVB before Klopp was barely relevant. Sooner or later Leipzig will win the Bundesliga but apart from these 4 clubs, the rest will always be inconsistent
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Re: 2019/20 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby Fénix » Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:22 pm

Leipzig will win if they play a season like BVB played in 2011/2012, no more no less than that one and it would be very narrow, but first Bayern must sabotage itself to make this happen.

We have stagnated for 4 years and yet again every time ended up champions, including last season when the best chance for was for any opponent after 2011/2012.

We decide who is going to be a champion, Bayern or someone else. They don't decide anything at all. We didn't need to invest 6 huge years to keep our domination going.

What about others? BVB can't keep their best players and that's it. That also happened to Klopp with between 2011-2014 each and every summer with the best players season earlier. Sahin, Kagawa, Götze, Lewandowski...
One by one, just to push the club down to the bottom in 2014/2015 and award Klopp with burnout and exit that immediately led Liverpool in less than 4-5 years to their greatest moments in club's history since the Premier League was founded. :)

Those 4 players said no to BVB as a big club, elite club, future European powerhouse. The same did later Mhykhitarian, Aubameyang, Dembélé and co. and the same will do Achraf, Haaland and Sancho.
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Re: 2019/20 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby tuscanybayern » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:05 pm

Fénix wrote:Leipzig will win if they play a season like BVB played in 2011/2012, no more no less than that one and it would be very narrow, but first Bayern must sabotage itself to make this happen.

We have stagnated for 4 years and yet again every time ended up champions, including last season when the best chance for was for any opponent after 2011/2012.

We decide who is going to be a champion, Bayern or someone else. They don't decide anything at all. We didn't need to invest 6 huge years to keep our domination going.

What about others? BVB can't keep their best players and that's it. That also happened to Klopp with between 2011-2014 each and every summer with the best players season earlier. Sahin, Kagawa, Götze, Lewandowski...
One by one, just to push the club down to the bottom in 2014/2015 and award Klopp with burnout and exit that immediately led Liverpool in less than 4-5 years to their greatest moments in club's history since the Premier League was founded. :)

Those 4 players said no to BVB as a big club, elite club, future European powerhouse. The same did later Mhykhitarian, Aubameyang, Dembélé and co. and the same will do Achraf, Haaland and Sancho.


Leipzig with their crazy investments and club structure (RB Salzburg and Leifering) is attracting Europe's best talents and sooner or later with Nagelsmann they'll equal Klopp's BVB.

Ok Werner is most likely going to Chelsea but bare in mind that had it not been for Raiola, his replacement would have been Haaland from RB Salzburg.

In the meanwhile BVB could sign both Bellingham and Kouassi
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Re: 2019/20 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby Fénix » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:50 am

Leipzig talents lack 2 crucial things to make the club successful long-term; experience and loyalty

Short- term they might win something like almost DFB Pokal last year and one Bundesliga if they really gather a hell of a young and strong squad. Long-term you have to keep your core and coach for 7-10 to get your recognition as a top serious club.

I don't think so.
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Re: 2019/20 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby nm462272 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:55 am

Dortmund's advantage but also big problem is that they seem to market themselves to players as a stepping stone. "Hey Sancho/Haaland/Demebele/etc., come here and play for a few years, raise your profile even more, then we'll sell you to a big team!". This is good for BVB, since they can actually sign these young talents, but inevitably there will always been a continiuity and loyalty problem which will prevent them from stepping to the next level of clubs.
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Re: 2019/20 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby Fénix » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:16 am

What I thought after 2011 and 2012 titles that BVB by now would stand side by side with us and even win 2 more Bundesliga titles, play another CL final after 2013 and every single season have a dead race like Madrid and Barcelona between 2008 and 2013, but no.
Losing your best players every season isn't exactly the way you'll fight against Bayern.

We all forgot how much we invested and how many new players we bought in summer 2011 and 2012 when we failed to be champions, not to mention our frustrations and ego how wounded it was after 17-18 years or so given the fact that in the early and mid-90's was the last time when we failed to see Bundesliga title for 2-3 straight seasons.
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Re: 2019/20 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby Bazi » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:49 pm

nm462272 wrote:Dortmund's advantage but also big problem is that they seem to market themselves to players as a stepping stone. "Hey Sancho/Haaland/Demebele/etc., come here and play for a few years, raise your profile even more, then we'll sell you to a big team!". This is good for BVB, since they can actually sign these young talents, but inevitably there will always been a continiuity and loyalty problem which will prevent them from stepping to the next level of clubs.


As the first step Dortmund needs to grow to a point where they can keep their players for two contracts and sell them when they're 25/26 years old, not at 21/22. That's how they got to the 2012/13 Champions League final and won a double, but now they're on the radar of the biggest Premiere League and Primera Divsion clubs so their young stars usually leave at the end of their first contracts.

You can't win like that.
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Re: 2019/20 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby nm462272 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:55 pm

Bazi wrote:
nm462272 wrote:Dortmund's advantage but also big problem is that they seem to market themselves to players as a stepping stone. "Hey Sancho/Haaland/Demebele/etc., come here and play for a few years, raise your profile even more, then we'll sell you to a big team!". This is good for BVB, since they can actually sign these young talents, but inevitably there will always been a continiuity and loyalty problem which will prevent them from stepping to the next level of clubs.


As the first step Dortmund needs to grow to a point where they can keep their players for two contracts and sell them when they're 25/26 years old, not at 21/22. That's how they got to the 2012/13 Champions League final and won a double, but now they're on the radar of the biggest Premiere League and Primera Divsion clubs so their young stars usually leave at the end of their first contracts.

You can't win like that.


in the short-term, they should continue trying to target players like Brandt (or even a Timo Werner, under different circumstances). Players who probably can't make it at the VERY top level, but would shine at a Dortmund level. With players like Haaland or Dembele, you see the inevitable divorce coming before they even sign the contract. So yeah, I agree - can't build a winning squad long-term on players like that.
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Re: 2019/20 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:50 pm

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Re: 2019/20 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby IsiahRashad » Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:40 pm

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Re: 2019/20 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:03 pm

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Re: 2019/20 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby Ben Gardner » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:11 pm

Congrats to your 8th consecutive title. Your biggest so called rival has 8 titles all together, how sad is that. Next year will be even more sad when you win your 9th consecutive title.
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Re: 2019/20 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:24 pm

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Re: 2019/20 Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Postby Fénix » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:08 pm

You are really in party mode, good for you! :D

Nobody can stop this Bayern except Bayern itself, ie the Bayern board with saving money and not investing in top players. :D
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