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2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby FCB12Forever » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:11 am

I am asking this question: do you think lifting 50+1 would really attract Big, good foreign investors?

If so, why would those leagues who never had any restrictions like 50+1 still struggling?

Why wouldn't investors go for Lyon, Bordeaux, Nice, Toulousse?

Why would the two Milan's only have shady investor like Mr. Li (Honestly this man boasts about himself all the time but I rarely see him do anything) and the Indonesian Inter boss? What about Roma? Naples?

Finally, how would you convince a good investor that your team is a good project, i.e. profitable in the long run? Would investors really set their feet in places like Hannover, Monchengladbach, Dortmund? Why wouldn't they leave for bigger and more famous cities, i.e. London, Paris, Milan?
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby pyrasur » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:09 am

FCB12Forever wrote:I am asking this question: do you think lifting 50+1 would really attract Big, good foreign investors?

If so, why would those leagues who never had any restrictions like 50+1 still struggling?

Why wouldn't investors go for Lyon, Bordeaux, Nice, Toulousse?

Why would the two Milan's only have shady investor like Mr. Li (Honestly this man boasts about himself all the time but I rarely see him do anything) and the Indonesian Inter boss? What about Roma? Naples?

Finally, how would you convince a good investor that your team is a good project, i.e. profitable in the long run? Would investors really set their feet in places like Hannover, Monchengladbach, Dortmund? Why wouldn't they leave for bigger and more famous cities, i.e. London, Paris, Milan?


Then what are you afraid of, since apparently there is no incentive for investors to come to Germany anyway?

I don't understand what fans have to be afraid of, if 50+1 goes away, since it's not like abolishing the rule automatically transfers ownership from the "fans/members" to whatever corporate bogieman is being imagined. When I was a child, I thought the rule sounded great too, "football for the fans" and all that. But it's bullshit. The clubs are still "owned" by an organization of people right now. It doesn't matter if it is 20000 joes who can't run their own business (but savvy enough to elect whoever inevitably brings Felix Magath in), or a bunch of businessmen who decide shockingly to invest THEIR money to bring football to an East German city that has the market for a big team. It's better for fans to endure Hamburg in the league unendingly, than for a corporation (which weirdly has these humans working in it) to bring it's organization and efficiency to give football to the people according to the market?

If the rule goes away, the members will still own the Bundesliga clubs. If club members don't want to sell, there is no one holding a gun to their head to sell. They could, I don't know, decide not to sell their club if they really wanted to. If they sell to a bad buyer, that's their fault. But even if a decent owner sells to a bad owner, it's really not the end of the world. Though it is an enormous shame for one segment of people who as fans are entitled to a first-tier team to have that team drop out of the first-tier through mismanagement, I'm gonna have to somehow find solace in the two or three cities full of other fans that must not deserve to watch Bundesliga football, with teams that will be coming that had no entitlement but fought their way out of the second league. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ They could, I don't know, get together and put their money where their mouths are and buy their clubs back. This is just another stage of Germans needing to act like they are preserving purity like they did when they resisted professionalism in favor of amateurism. :coffee:
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:34 am

I‘m actually torn, but seriously, that’s wrong ;)

In most cases, members have squat to say about this! Think our members were asked about selling shares to Audi, Allianz, Adidas?
No, that’s a board decision...
It’s not about having a say, it’s about identity... Leipzig and the East Germans... Let’s face it: they were too dumb and stupid to maintain/establish a decent Bundesliga team... They were given more than enough chances, Bundesliga was even extended back then... They were simply unable to be competitive an grab their share of the market... So they needed influx from outside... Now we have some construct playing Bundesliga that has less history than some carton of milk in the back of my fridge... Yes, this sport has become a business... But some club doing decent wirk is now denied a spot in the Bundesliga, because Red Bull needed a marketing-toy...
I don’t think that’s desirable and yes, I do think some shitty investors will come... But maybe also a few good ones...
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:41 am

Germany won it's 1st World Cup with semi pro players ...

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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby pyrasur » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:37 am

ramsej84 wrote:Germany won it's 1st World Cup with semi pro players ...

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Can't tell if you aren't sure of your statement there and that's why you're trailing off at the end, or if you've stumbled onto a major discovery. If only we could pit an amateur team against a professional team to test this find. Or we could all stop collecting paychecks at work, become apprentices/masters and restart the bartering system. Unfortunately I'd starve since I don't think grocery stores accept my wares, but I'd feel ethically cleansed.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:05 am

ramsej84 wrote:Germany won it's 1st World Cup with semi pro players ...

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And how many World Cups did Malta win with all our semi pro players?
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:33 pm

#12 wrote:I‘m actually torn, but seriously, that’s wrong ;)

In most cases, members have squat to say about this! Think our members were asked about selling shares to Audi, Allianz, Adidas?
No, that’s a board decision...
It’s not about having a say, it’s about identity... Leipzig and the East Germans... Let’s face it: they were too dumb and stupid to maintain/establish a decent Bundesliga team... They were given more than enough chances, Bundesliga was even extended back then... They were simply unable to be competitive an grab their share of the market... So they needed influx from outside... Now we have some construct playing Bundesliga that has less history than some carton of milk in the back of my fridge... Yes, this sport has become a business... But some club doing decent wirk is now denied a spot in the Bundesliga, because Red Bull needed a marketing-toy...
I don’t think that’s desirable and yes, I do think some shitty investors will come... But maybe also a few good ones...


What decent work is being done by BuLi clubs? AFAIK, everyone but Bayern is doing a pretty shitty job (Leipzig is yet TBD).

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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby pyrasur » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:20 pm

Woah bud. I think it’s pretty clear that Leipzig and East Germans... too stupid... except randomly found a way... found investors... investors bad... ...maybe also good. Also member ownership means nothing because silly it’s actually the board that makes the decisions members never had any say anyway. They must be fighting over their symbolic ownership then. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:29 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
#12 wrote:I‘m actually torn, but seriously, that’s wrong ;)

In most cases, members have squat to say about this! Think our members were asked about selling shares to Audi, Allianz, Adidas?
No, that’s a board decision...
It’s not about having a say, it’s about identity... Leipzig and the East Germans... Let’s face it: they were too dumb and stupid to maintain/establish a decent Bundesliga team... They were given more than enough chances, Bundesliga was even extended back then... They were simply unable to be competitive an grab their share of the market... So they needed influx from outside... Now we have some construct playing Bundesliga that has less history than some carton of milk in the back of my fridge... Yes, this sport has become a business... But some club doing decent wirk is now denied a spot in the Bundesliga, because Red Bull needed a marketing-toy...
I don’t think that’s desirable and yes, I do think some shitty investors will come... But maybe also a few good ones...


What decent work is being done by BuLi clubs? AFAIK, everyone but Bayern is doing a pretty shitty job (Leipzig is yet TBD).

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More like one in second Bundesliga..

And have fun with the ridiculing... No arguments though... Think every investor is a sheikh? Willing to spend millions? To make up for the bad work they do?
Don’t see it happening... HSV, Leverkusen, Wolfsburg and Hannover on top of that are not faring much better...
The money influx they can get from selling 44.9 % is not really higher than 50 plus x...
As I said, they’re not all gonna be sheiks...
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby America USA » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:34 pm

#12 wrote:Seriously, not a single British player? Let alone English... Brexit

Welcome to Premier League football!

And people wonder why the English NT is so dire when it comes to the Big Tournaments. Apparently quite a lot of users here want Die Mannschaft to suffer the same fate :problem:
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby FCB12Forever » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:18 pm

pyrasur wrote:Then what are you afraid of, since apparently there is no incentive for investors to come to Germany anyway?

I don't understand what fans have to be afraid of, if 50+1 goes away, since it's not like abolishing the rule automatically transfers ownership from the "fans/members" to whatever corporate bogieman is being imagined. When I was a child, I thought the rule sounded great too, "football for the fans" and all that. But it's bullshit. The clubs are still "owned" by an organization of people right now. It doesn't matter if it is 20000 joes who can't run their own business (but savvy enough to elect whoever inevitably brings Felix Magath in), or a bunch of businessmen who decide shockingly to invest THEIR money to bring football to an East German city that has the market for a big team. It's better for fans to endure Hamburg in the league unendingly, than for a corporation (which weirdly has these humans working in it) to bring it's organization and efficiency to give football to the people according to the market?

If the rule goes away, the members will still own the Bundesliga clubs. If club members don't want to sell, there is no one holding a gun to their head to sell. They could, I don't know, decide not to sell their club if they really wanted to. If they sell to a bad buyer, that's their fault. But even if a decent owner sells to a bad owner, it's really not the end of the world. Though it is an enormous shame for one segment of people who as fans are entitled to a first-tier team to have that team drop out of the first-tier through mismanagement, I'm gonna have to somehow find solace in the two or three cities full of other fans that must not deserve to watch Bundesliga football, with teams that will be coming that had no entitlement but fought their way out of the second league. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ They could, I don't know, get together and put their money where their mouths are and buy their clubs back. This is just another stage of Germans needing to act like they are preserving purity like they did when they resisted professionalism in favor of amateurism.


I think you missed my point. I am never afraid of, or opposed to, the idea that BL should try new things, along with giving the clubs the freedom to do what they want. (Of course, suffer/enjoy the circumstances of their choices) I know the 50+1 rules are against the EU antitrust laws and will be shattered facing any type of lawsuit. And I believe FCB is never afraid of this kind of change, as stated by KHR numerous times.

However, people should refrain from being too optimistic about abolishing the 50+1: it will definitely not guarantee success. It won't even guarantee you any rich teams. Like what already happened in Ligue 1 and Serie A.

Yet if I were to bet some $ on which teams will most possibly rise after the fall of 50+1, I will place my bet on Hertha and Frankfurt.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:12 pm

America USA wrote:
#12 wrote:Seriously, not a single British player? Let alone English... Brexit

Welcome to Premier League football!

And people wonder why the English NT is so dire when it comes to the Big Tournaments. Apparently quite a lot of users here want Die Mannschaft to suffer the same fate :problem:

Because English players simply aren't good enough. Bayern didn't stop playing Germans even though we have money. But I would pick a foreign better player over a worse German one any day.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:34 pm

I told you those **** are going to save themselves again... Guess we will never see them relegated...
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:23 pm

#12 wrote:I told you those **** are going to save themselves again... Guess we will never see them relegated...
They are 1--2 down

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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:27 pm

ramsej84 wrote:
#12 wrote:I told you those **** are going to save themselves again... Guess we will never see them relegated...
They are 1--2 down

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