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2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby America USA » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:39 pm

I brought up Trump because he was in large part elected due to his appeal as a “successful” rich man. He apparently self financed his campaigns (highly unlikely) and in his own words, because he is already wealthy, he is incorruptible and won't be greedy. :biggrin:

This would be funny if it was only that doofus who believed in the above sentiment but a very large portion of my fellow Americans actually buy into that fallacious logic and I have actually met folks who think Trump is good because he is rich and just because he is a wealthy business man he is an efficient leader and can get deals done. #-o

Dumbledore7 wrote:
America USA wrote:According to your logic, if someone is smart + rich then that person has a divine right to rule over the “masses”. Okay :wink:

Correct. Glad you got my point.

If you’re actually serious with that last statement of yours, I see no point in continuing this discussion with you Mr. Plutocrat. Charles Koch would be so proud of you!
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:04 pm

America USA wrote:In any case, I am happy with the 50+1 rule. I don’t want any Oil merchants in German football and I certainly don’t want a Stan Kroenke type billionaire buying Bayern/Dortmund and then turning them into the next Arsenal (where the fans have no power whatsoever and the rich owner runs the club the way he wants from several thousand miles away)

Well, that's a con obviously. But, on the whole, don't you believe that there is more quality in the Premier League thanks to investors than there'd have been had there not been any investors?
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:07 pm

MUTU wrote:
Achilles wrote:Agreed on that, Bundesliga needs adjustments as for the players I didn't write, I just pick the best ones from the list you wrote.
Nevertheless if our competitors and the DFB keep this thing going on then all the good German players who doesn't fit or there is no room for Bayern will end up eventually abroad, that's for sure.

... and eventually Bayern would be unable to compete in Europe.

Are we so stubborn to persist in resisting investors and getting ever so close to this eventuality, just because we want to dictate that a club could own 50.1% of shares but not 49.9%?
Bayern is a self sufficient football club.
If a foreign tm comes to buy the club they can change us into a soulless club...

As for the rest of the clubs they can do whatever they like ...

But I don't want to see Bayern run by a Russian or Chinese mafia tugs or a Gulf Prince who has never seen football in his life as his passions are sport cars, horses and fire arms...

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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:08 pm

MUTU wrote:
America USA wrote:In any case, I am happy with the 50+1 rule. I don’t want any Oil merchants in German football and I certainly don’t want a Stan Kroenke type billionaire buying Bayern/Dortmund and then turning them into the next Arsenal (where the fans have no power whatsoever and the rich owner runs the club the way he wants from several thousand miles away)

Well, that's a con obviously. But, on the whole, don't you believe that there is more quality in the Premier League thanks to investors than there'd have been had there not been any investors?

There's no belief there, it's a fact. This is even more obvious if you look at France. None of the stars there would even consider playing there for 1 second if it were not for the investors.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:12 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
MUTU wrote:
America USA wrote:In any case, I am happy with the 50+1 rule. I don’t want any Oil merchants in German football and I certainly don’t want a Stan Kroenke type billionaire buying Bayern/Dortmund and then turning them into the next Arsenal (where the fans have no power whatsoever and the rich owner runs the club the way he wants from several thousand miles away)

Well, that's a con obviously. But, on the whole, don't you believe that there is more quality in the Premier League thanks to investors than there'd have been had there not been any investors?

There's no belief there, it's a fact. This is even more obvious if you look at France. None of the stars there would even consider playing there for 1 second if it were not for the investors.


Not a fact for me... The PL gets an insane amount of money from TV deals... Investors are not the reason the PL is overhyped in Asia and whatnot...
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:14 pm

ramsej84 wrote:
MUTU wrote:
Achilles wrote:Agreed on that, Bundesliga needs adjustments as for the players I didn't write, I just pick the best ones from the list you wrote.
Nevertheless if our competitors and the DFB keep this thing going on then all the good German players who doesn't fit or there is no room for Bayern will end up eventually abroad, that's for sure.

... and eventually Bayern would be unable to compete in Europe.

Are we so stubborn to persist in resisting investors and getting ever so close to this eventuality, just because we want to dictate that a club could own 50.1% of shares but not 49.9%?
Bayern is a self sufficient football club.
If a foreign tm comes to buy the club they can change us into a soulless club...

As for the rest of the clubs they can do whatever they like ...

But I don't want to see Bayern run by a Russian or Chinese mafia tugs or a Gulf Prince who has never seen football in his life as his passions are sport cars, horses and fire arms...

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In what I would envisage, Bayern aren't going to be run by Russian mafias. Hertha and Mainz are.

The Bundesliga may well maintain the same level of quality as PL and La Liga with 50+1 if the clubs have good financial models (e.g. Sponsorship) like Bayern. Unfortunately there's only one Bayern and other clubs won't be remotely as well run as us, so some Chinese guy will have to buy Stuttgart if they are going to be good again.

The other alternative is for there to be more RB Leipzig's.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:15 pm

MUTU wrote:
America USA wrote:In any case, I am happy with the 50+1 rule. I don’t want any Oil merchants in German football and I certainly don’t want a Stan Kroenke type billionaire buying Bayern/Dortmund and then turning them into the next Arsenal (where the fans have no power whatsoever and the rich owner runs the club the way he wants from several thousand miles away)

Well, that's a con obviously. But, on the whole, don't you believe that there is more quality in the Premier League thanks to investors than there'd have been had there not been any investors?
Yes I can see their success... Man City running the show alone...
Last yr it was Chelsea...
The season before it was the magnificent Leicester City

Out of five teams the EPL will end up with 3 or 2 for the QF... big success indeed

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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:19 pm

#12 wrote:Not a fact for me... The PL gets an insane amount of money from TV deals... Investors are not the reason the PL is overhyped in Asia and whatnot...

Well, it's not the case with France. Maybe it's not the only reason in England but investment will definitely improve quality.

I understand the point of view against foreign investment and to some extent sympathise with ramsej's POV, but as long as we're talking about better quality, investment is better than no investment, 100%.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:20 pm

ramsej84 wrote:If a foreign tm comes to buy the club they can change us into a soulless club...

I think you're exaggerating here. First off, if 50+1 is abolished I doubt Bayern would sell the majority of their shares. But let's say they do. Let's imagine a hypothetical scenario in which 50+1 is abolished. Currently, 25% of our shares are owned by investors. Let's say Porsche comes along and buys 26% of shares. Bayern would have a minority of shares (49%), 26% would be owned by Porsche, and the 25% owned by the current investors. What do you think would change in reality? Would we, say, change our club colours to purple? What are you actually scared of? Can you quantify it with something physical rather than using ambiguous terminology like "soul"?

ramsej84 wrote:But I don't want to see Bayern run by a Russian or Chinese mafia tugs or a Gulf Prince who has never seen football in his life as his passions are sport cars, horses and fire arms...

Just because you abolish 50+1 doesn't mean a club gets a single owner. In my hypothetical scenario, FC Bayern would retain most control unless all other shareholders contradict it, which given how many stupid decisions we're making lately might actually be a good thing.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:21 pm

Is anyone able to answer this question for me...?
We ask this same question here in Malta when suspicious ppl come here to invest in our football...

What would they gain from it?

How come does this Chinese/Russian/Arab fell in love with a club like let say Mainz? What affection does he have for the tm?



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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:23 pm

ramsej84 wrote:Is anyone able to answer this question for me...?
We ask this same question here in Malta when suspicious ppl come here to invest in our football...

What would they gain from it?

How come does this Chinese/Russian/Arab fell in love with a club like let say Mainz? What affection does he have for the tm?



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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:25 pm

MUTU wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:If a foreign tm comes to buy the club they can change us into a soulless club...

I think you're exaggerating here. First off, if 50+1 is abolished I doubt Bayern would sell the majority of their shares. But let's say they do. Let's imagine a hypothetical scenario in which 50+1 is abolished. Currently, 25% of our shares are owned by investors. Let's say Porsche comes along and buys 26% of shares. Bayern would have a minority of shares (49%), 26% would be owned by Porsche, and the 25% owned by the current investors. What do you think would change in reality? Would we, say, change our club colours to purple? What are you actually scared of? Can you quantify it with something physical rather than using ambiguous terminology like "soul"?
Eg. They can and surely will change the tradition to have the best Germans playing for us... (something which a foreigner started way back in 2013/14) and thus making us the biggest supplier for the NT...

We may end up playing with 11
foreigners...

Our youth set up will be forgotten...


Ticket prices...

Who knows...?

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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:26 pm

ramsej84 wrote:Is anyone able to answer this question for me...?
We ask this same question here in Malta when suspicious ppl come here to invest in our football...

What would they gain from it?

How come does this Chinese/Russian/Arab fell in love with a club like let say Mainz? What affection does he have for the tm?



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First answer my question. Can you explain, quantitatively, the doom you envisage would happen to German football if 50+1 was abolished? Please refrain from using the word "soul" or anything ambiguous. I expect answers like... the owners would take the clubs to bankruptcy, sell all their players and then leave them in a sorry state in a lower division.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:28 pm

MUTU wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:Is anyone able to answer this question for me...?
We ask this same question here in Malta when suspicious ppl come here to invest in our football...

What would they gain from it?

How come does this Chinese/Russian/Arab fell in love with a club like let say Mainz? What affection does he have for the tm?



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First answer my question. Can you explain, quantitatively, the doom you envisage would happen to German football if 50+1 was abolished? Please refrain from using the word "soul" or anything ambiguous. I expect answers like... the owners would take the clubs to bankruptcy, sell all their players and then leave them in a sorry state in a lower division.
I hope that I answered you in my previous post

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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:31 pm

ramsej84 wrote:We may end up playing with 11
foreigners...

This sounds borderline racist. I'm not even going to ask why you believe it's bad.

ramsej84 wrote:Our youth set up will be forgotten...

Why would a businessman with a sound economic pedigree, who'd find a gift in the form of a €100m youth centre, forgo by far his best shot at making profit from his investments? If anything, getting an investor would probably boost our youth setups. The Man City and Chelsea youths have never been so good as they are now.

ramsej84 wrote:Ticket prices...

Yes, this is a valid concern. I selfishly say I'd rather ticket prices go up so we could afford better players. Obviously, those who visit the Allianz Arena every matchday won't agree. But: are there more fans going to the stadium or watching the match at home/at a pub?

ramsej84 wrote:Who knows...?

Well, you're scared, I thought you'd know :lol:
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