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2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby Manchu » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:14 am

YlonenXabi wrote:

I was curious to see why Bremen are still only 2 points above the relegation zone and I did some research

Since Florian Kohfeldt is in charge
(October 2017) Werder Bremen are a Top 5 team in BL. :o


What Kovac is doing with Eintracht deserves some recognition as well, but let's not forget Eintracht has got a much better squad than shitty Bremen

I definitely agree that Kohfeldt deserves credit, but we should remember that Werder Bremen went through the same song and dance last season too. They were playing terrible defensive football that was going to see them relegated, so the board sacked Skrypnyk and brought in Nouri, who got them playing good and exciting offensive football, leading to excellent results and nearly getting them to an Europa League spot.

Nouri then, for some inexplicable reason, decided that the getting Bremen to play terrible defensive football was the way to improve the team. Predictably, this put Bremen deep in the relegation zone, and it was clear that they were going to drop unless something changed, so the board sacked Nouri and brought in Kohfeldt, who got them playing good and exciting offensive football, leading to excellent results, and hopefully he is smart enough to figure out he shouldn't mess with something that's working, or the cycle will continue.

I think that the main moral of the story is that Werder Bremen's squad is much better at attacking than parking the bus, not to mention that offensive football is arguably better than defensive football for teams in the relegation battle.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:26 pm

Unsurprisingly Bremen won 3-1 against Koeln today and again showing that they are one of the best counter attacking teams in BL. Similar style to Gladbach, but with a mediocre squad :)

They are still unbeaten at home with Kohfeldt =D>
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby DRvad14 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:17 pm

What would happen if Bundesliga clubs scrapped '50+1' ownership rule? -Raphael Honigstein
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Last month, ProFans, a lobby group of Bundesliga supporters and ultras warned that "a storm would gather, nationwide," if German professional football were to allow outside investors to take over.
The weakening or abolition of the existing "50+1 rule" that enshrines majority control of a club by their members would be "a declaration of war," the fans threatened.There won't be a need to don flak jackets and helmets just yet when the 36 members of the Bundesliga umbrella organisation (DFL) will meet to discuss the highly contentious subject in two weeks' time. No decision will be forthcoming either way, as the clubs will only debate the setting up of a framework to look at possible reforms. It's a time-buying exercise, borrowed from politics: When things get too contentious, appoint a committee.

Nevertheless, the winds of change have picked up pace. On Thursday, Bayern Munich chairman Karl-Heinz Rummenigge renewed his support for the abolition of "50+1" in an interview with GQ magazine's German edition.

"I hope that the DFL will release clubs from this rule," the 62-year-old said. "Every club should decide for themselves whether they open their doors for investors, how they open their doors or not at all."

Rummenigge added that he expected the inclusion of "hard shoulders" to "smooth the transition" and safeguard the well-being of clubs.

The Bavarian giants are in the enviable position of having the best of both worlds. Three strategic partners -- Audi, Adidas and Allianz -- have bought a total of 25 percent of shares but the members are still in charge of the club by virtue of control over 75 percent of the voting rights. If Bayern were to sell equity beyond a total of 30 percent, they would have to seek the permission of the members first.

In an ideal world, all Bundesliga sides would be able to thrive thanks to such a benign dual-system but Bayern's sporting prowess make them an anomaly. Other, less successful and well-situated clubs have found it incredibly hard to attract minority shareholders who are happy to forego control. Hannover, who recently withdrew a legal challenge to the existing rules, have argued that investors can only be expected to open their purse strings if they can determine the use of their money.

The club based in Lower Saxony have also pointed to four exceptions which make it impossible for them to compete on a level playing field. Bayer Leverkusen, Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim are owned by companies (Bayer, Volkswagen) and a wealthy benefactor (Dietmar Hopp) respectively, while RB Leipzig's organisational structure pays lip service to the "50+1" rule but is set up in a way in which Red Bull calls the shots.So what would happen if the DFL were to follow Rummenigge's laissez-faire approach and free clubs to determine if and how they want to accept the money of companies or sugar daddies? It's not an easy question to answer.

A majority of the 14 member-controlled sides would in all likelihood resist any takeovers, in line with the wishes of the supporters. In Germany, fans regard their clubs as inalienable community assets; the promise of better players and trophies by way of investment of a new owner doesn't sway them.

Their fear is, however, that they won't always be able to stop a sell-out. At Hannover, for example, the elected board has already rubber-stamped the sale of 51 percent of shares in the club to chairman Martin Kind and a consortium of investors. Only "50 +1" continues to stand in Kind's way.

Opening up to foreign ownership would help competitiveness and the league's international brand but the influx of money, foreign or otherwise, would then possibly lead to a Premier League-type arms race where big, traditional clubs are under huge pressure to auction their soul to the highest bidder. It's a dystopian vision for German football traditionalists, made worse by the probable rise of more franchise-type clubs in the RB Leipzig mould.Resistance from members at blue-chip outfits could well channel investors' money into the setting up of new, turbo-charged clubs in the lower leagues who would soon threaten the status quo further up the food chain. Clubs created as marketing or political vehicles could spring up everywhere.

It might well be that the existing, slightly incoherent mish-mash in Germany's two professional leagues will ultimately be regarded as the lesser of two evils by the clubs in light of the perceived dangers of the model's liberalisation. But the pressure to generate money will not subside any time soon, and the resistance to any change will only become more pronounced accordingly. A storm is indeed brewing.


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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:18 am

So the long-term alternatives for the traditonal supporters are: 1) For their clubs to be replaced by more Leipzig’s and Wolfsburg’s, or 2) Improve their clubs by attracting foreign investors.

Yet the traditionalists are resisting change. Shocking from the German crowd.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:44 am

The traditionalists want to halt progress in German football just to satisfy their crave for some power and feeling of belonging. Nothing new here. If they get their way, I hope they only point fingers at themselves when their clubs infallibly get humiliated in European competitions and the German national team starts to suffer as well.

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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:52 am

MUTU wrote:The traditionalists want to halt progress in German football just to satisfy their crave for some power and feeling of belonging. Nothing new here. If they get their way, I hope they only point fingers at themselves when their clubs infallibly get humiliated in European competitions and the German national team starts to suffer as well.

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How can the German NT suffers?
It will actually makes it stonger as the clubs will invest more in their talents.

OK I have forgot how the three lions have been dominating world football for ages.

You guys are going where those who have ruined our favorite sport want to you to go...
Give football back to the people...
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:55 am

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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:59 am

ramsej84 wrote:How can the German NT suffers?

Because players hungry for money will choose a bench role in the Premier League over a starting role at a Bundesliga club because they could earn far more. The exodus has started quite a while ago, as you can see.

Furthermore, those who remain in the Bundesliga will play week after week against increasingly weaker opposition, so the level of quality would fall down. Look at what happened in Italy. The Serie A quality fell and the Italian NT failed to qualify for the World Cup. Same thing happened in the Netherlands. If the level of the Bundesliga keeps falling, we can gear ourselves for the NT failing to even qualify for major tournaments.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:01 am

ramsej84 wrote:OK I have forgot how the three lions have been dominating world football for ages.

You guys are going where those who have ruined our favorite sport want to you to go...
Give football back to the people...
The day when Bayern gets a foreign owner will be the day when I will send back membership card together with a request to cancel my membership.

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Was that ever a problem for Spain?

I'm happy to go where I'm going, because they are improving football. Face the truth.

What can people do with football clubs? Do they have sporting knowledge? Are they business savvy? No, people are sheep.

We want to claim the fans have power, but in reality not many are willing to boycott a match to make a point. Sheepish attitude, they just keep buying tickets like idiots doing worship. Sheeps shouldn't be able to have control over anything. Leave it to the rich, smart and powerful.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:08 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:OK I have forgot how the three lions have been dominating world football for ages.

You guys are going where those who have ruined our favorite sport want to you to go...
Give football back to the people...
The day when Bayern gets a foreign owner will be the day when I will send back membership card together with a request to cancel my membership.

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Was that ever a problem for Spain?

I'm happy to go where I'm going, because they are improving football. Face the truth.

What can people do with football clubs? Do they have sporting knowledge? Are they business savvy? No, people are sheep.

We want to claim the fans have power, but in reality not many are willing to boycott a match to make a point. Sheepish attitude, they just keep buying tickets like idiots doing worship. Sheeps shouldn't be able to have control over anything. Leave it to the rich, smart and powerful.
The Spanish play their trade in Spain...
Fabregas
Silva
Morata
De Gea come to mind , the rest play in la liga.

The rest of the post ... erm not sure if I did comprehend or not

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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:11 am

ramsej84 wrote:The Spanish play their trade in Spain...
Fabregas
Silva
Morata
De Gea come to mind , the rest play in la liga.

Yep, because foreign investors are allowing the Spanish clubs to retain their players by offering them competitive wages, so Spanish players are remaining in Spain. The minute Spanish clubs would not be able to compete on salaries is the minute the exodus of Spanish players from Spain would start.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:34 am

MUTU wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:The Spanish play their trade in Spain...
Fabregas
Silva
Morata
De Gea come to mind , the rest play in la liga.

Yep, because foreign investors are allowing the Spanish clubs to retain their players by offering them competitive wages, so Spanish players are remaining in Spain. The minute Spanish clubs would not be able to compete on salaries is the minute the exodus of Spanish players from Spain would start.

Which is already happening with German players. There's only so much room in Bayern and not even Dortmund can afford them.

Only way to get the likes Özil, Sané and Kroos back in Germany is to enable the Bremen, Schalke and Hertha to afford them. Investments.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:00 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:
MUTU wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:The Spanish play their trade in Spain...
Fabregas
Silva
Morata
De Gea come to mind , the rest play in la liga.

Yep, because foreign investors are allowing the Spanish clubs to retain their players by offering them competitive wages, so Spanish players are remaining in Spain. The minute Spanish clubs would not be able to compete on salaries is the minute the exodus of Spanish players from Spain would start.

Which is already happening with German players. There's only so much room in Bayern and not even Dortmund can afford them.

Only way to get the likes Özil, Sané and Kroos back in Germany is to enable the Bremen, Schalke and Hertha to afford them. Investments.

Yes, I doubt there were as many German players playing abroad as there are today.

Just in England:
M. Özil
I. Gündoğan
L. Sané
S. Mustafi
A. Rüdiger
P. Mertesacker
E. Can
L. Karius
P. Groß
R. Huth
J. Kirchhoff
C. Schindler
C. Löwe
P. Lasogga
F. Wiedwald
M. Leitner
U. Hünemeier
J. Hegeler
T. Trybull
M. Hefele
C. Zimmermann
O. Hernández
C. Quaner
P. Bauer
M. Stiepermann
D. Srbeny
L. Raeder
M. Ehmer
K. Brünker
R. Sattelmaier
M. Müller
M. Schwabl
J. Grodowski

At least 4 of the above used to play for FC Bayern.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:05 am

In Italy:
S. Khedira
B. Höwedes
R. Gosens
G. Gaudino
O. Kragl
T. Pachonik

Of which 1 ex-Bayern.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:06 am

In Spain:
T. Kroos
M. ter Stegen
J. Geis
D. Eckert

Of which 1 ex-Bayern.
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