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Changing the Rules

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Re: Changing the Rules

Postby YlonenXabi » Sat May 21, 2016 5:47 am

Flopping or diving = 2 match ban

Referees to give correct added times. No matter if it's 5,6 or 7 minutes. Sometimes they look afraid to add more than 3 minutes even if it's pretty obvious that the other team has been wasting. Especially on BL. I think this would be the end for time wasting tactics.


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I'm totally against the video reviews for one reason. It may work for some cases, but in many other everybody will have different opinions even after watching the same play from many different angles. Like close offsides, tackles or pushes not being hard enough to be called for a penalty...
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Re: Changing the Rules

Postby Valkress » Mon May 23, 2016 12:06 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:Flopping or diving = 2 match ban

Referees to give correct added times. No matter if it's 5,6 or 7 minutes. Sometimes they look afraid to add more than 3 minutes even if it's pretty obvious that the other team has been wasting. Especially on BL. I think this would be the end for time wasting tactics.


-----

I'm totally against the video reviews for one reason. It may work for some cases, but in many other everybody will have different opinions even after watching the same play from many different angles. Like close offsides, tackles or pushes not being hard enough to be called for a penalty...


For the added time, maybe stopping the timer as they do in rugby would be the most efficient. I have nothing against time wasting tactics when it means that you're playing at the back, hanging around the corner spot, etc but everything that happens when the ball is not in play is against fair-play.

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For the second part, I absolutely don't get your point. I've heard it a lot of tiimes already and I find it the worst possible argument. People will have different opinions... So what ? it's already the case today. The only difference is that, with the video, the guy making the call would also have all the available information !
Therefore, yes, there would still be place for debates but in most cases, the referee will have had all the info and therefore should make the correct call.

If anything, this would be a great tool against referee corruption (although I really don't think it's a problem at the football level where video would be used).

But at least, it would be more difficult for them to let their bias interfere.
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Re: Changing the Rules

Postby ottackon » Tue May 24, 2016 10:03 am

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Re: Changing the Rules

Postby YlonenXabi » Fri May 27, 2016 2:42 pm

Valkress wrote:For the second part, I absolutely don't get your point. I've heard it a lot of tiimes already and I find it the worst possible argument. People will have different opinions... So what ? it's already the case today. The only difference is that, with the video, the guy making the call would also have all the available information !
Therefore, yes, there would still be place for debates but in most cases, the referee will have had all the info and therefore should make the correct call.

If anything, this would be a great tool against referee corruption (although I really don't think it's a problem at the football level where video would be used)



Just imagine this scenario.

Real Madrid - Barcelona CL Final 2017

Pique pushes Cristiano on the back just inside of the penalty area. It looks like a little push, but Cristiano falls dramatically and everybody can see that in the video replay

The referee calls for a penalty kick.


Some people would say it's a penalty because it's a push on the back
Some people would say that's by no means a penalty because there's not power enough on that push to make Cristiano fall on the ground and therefore it's a steal because the ref is calling for it even after watching the replay


It might be good for some ref decisions, but it could be even worse for many other. So I can't see an improvement big enough to stop the game using video replays.
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Re: Changing the Rules

Postby Valkress » Fri May 27, 2016 4:07 pm

Yeah, some people would say the ref got it wrong... Just like they do now! You would not have more controversy than right now.

In fact, I am sure that the game would be way fairer.

Let's suppose that all ref would judge the fault the same way (I know it's not the case but they do try to follow the federation instructions, like we've seen during WC2014 where a lot of penalties were given, protecting the attacking players). Then, in your example, either it's judged as a dive by all ref and Cristiano gets a yellow (diving/cheating better punished) ; either the defender is considered at fault and they will learn to play by the rules (like no hugging your adversary during corners). It's a win-win, really!

Ps : I really hate your CL final prediction for 2017 :P
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Re: Changing the Rules

Postby tflags » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:58 am

FA Cup to be the first mayor (ok, sort of) tournament to make use of video replays to assist referring in football, for testing, starting this upcoming season.

Turns out the IFAB has been following closely those test results in Holland using video feeds from standard commercial broadcast setups already set in place for matches. The idea is to allow any football association to make official use of the technology (and rules) starting in 2018.

They have identified they can successfully assist the referee in 25% of the decisions he makes. That means the technology, at its very early stage, can influence and decide 1 in every 4 decisions the referee makes.

One very interesting part of the recent changes: Off sides -along with any other decision influencing goals, direct red cards and penalties -will be part of the program. Interesting changes since off sides were not part of the question on the first set of guidelines.

The feed will come from standard broadcasting equipment (by 2018 it will probably already be multiple 4k and 120Hz feeds at least from cameras to control cabins) which is an important point because the use of equipment already in place will make this technology much cheaper than goal line technology (which uses high speed cameras solely pointed at the goal line.)

The guy on the cabin, called the VAR (video assistant referee) will be a new position created by FIFA but he has to be a fully licensed FIFA referee, not a video broadcast expert. FIFA referees will need to be trained for this purpose.

Another part of the changes: iPads. Tablets will be tested at the touchline. I'm sure the fourth official will just be glad to show Klopp a video replay of that foul and avoid those life threatening situations of years past.

And for the purists out there, another good news: Timmings. The IFAB said they can have a full result from the VAR 'within 12 seconds'. Hell, Pepe takes up more time than that with those antics. The referee, therefore, can have a red card ready by the time he stops the show.

Speaking of red cards, the VAR will NOT assist in yellow cards necessarily unless those lead to a CGSO.
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Re: Changing the Rules

Postby tflags » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:30 am

SrLuisGuilherme wrote:From yesterday. He was about to score a nice goal, but.. :lol:
Can't see tweet? Click here!


Under a proposed rule which could be taken into effect after the Euro, this would be considered an instant penalty goal for Jesus; no penalty would need to be taken.
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Re: Changing the Rules

Postby tflags » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:41 am

Speaking of changes the list of rule modifications for the Euros is long and hopefully prosper.

Kick-offs can now be taken towards any direction (shocking, I know.) The circle still stands!
Pepe can now be sent off before the game has even started. How soon? As long as the referee steps into the pitch (let's say, pitch inspection) he can now send that MF straight to the showers.
And just to make things even more fun, if a player is fouled and that action resulted in a booking, the injured player can now be treated on the pitch. I'm not sure if this is in the rule book but there's still a time limit on this before he has to be stretchered off. Yey!

EDIT: A few other changes:

Players' underwear must be the same color as the shorts and (spoiler ahead) corner flags are now just another marketing tool as they can now be printed at the tournament organizer's discretion.
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Re: Changing the Rules

Postby quaazi » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:53 am

So we'll be seeing McDonalds kicks instead of corner kicks now? I don't think it's gonna work for Bayern, we dread seeing those corner flags. :P
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Re: Changing the Rules

Postby Machiavellico » Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:36 am

tflags wrote:And just to make things even more fun, if a player is fouled and that action resulted in a booking, the injured player can now be treated on the pitch. I'm not sure if this is in the rule book but there's still a time limit on this before he has to be stretchered off. Yey!


They could make that work using the Handball example. If a player is injured, a bell rings and the clock is stopped. It could work in football too and it would be pretty nifty
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Re: Changing the Rules

Postby Jorge » Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:38 pm

I would like to discuss further the tie-breaker rules after regulation time. Extra time more than often does not produce a winner and the reasons against Penalty Shootouts are well documented and periodically the subject comes to life but it seems that there isn’t enough steam these days to try new things.

Penalty shootouts have been around only since approximately 1970. For decades replay was the only tie-breaker, then coin toss and drawing of lots if the draw persisted. Most will be surprised to know that drawing of lots is still used as a tiebreaker for teams ending with identical record in the Group phase of tournaments including the World Cup (it is typically the 6th or 7th tie-breaker after Goal Difference, Head to Head, most goals scored, and so on.

As an observation I do not remember the details but FC Koln was involved in an endless draw in European competition back in the 60’s that was tied even after a coin toss. They tied the regular game, they tied the replay, then the first coin toss was also a tie because it landed on the edge on the muddy ground and it did not flip one side or the other.

Some of the proposed methods and some of my own ideas are as follows:

1) The Henry Birtles' "Advantage" proposal: It keeps the penalty shoot-out as it is right now but it will take place before extra-time, and only acting as a tiebreak if the game remains a draw after the full 120 minutes. This would lead to a more offensive extra-time as one of the teams would know they have to score and there would never be a match in which both teams are simply waiting for penalties, although the team that won the shoot-out will have a more defensive approach than the other but it will be a dangerous approach because then the shootout result is cancelled if a team scores. The way I see it this takes all the responsibility and blame off the shoulders of any individual that misses since the team as a whole will have 30 minutes to turn the game around.
2) Extra time with teams compelled to remove players at progressive intervals (similar to regular season play in the NHL). In Football this could be the extra time divided in 4 intervals going from 11v11 in the first interval to 7v7 in the last interval. I have reasons to believe that 6 field players per side after 114 minutes of play will leave enough space in the last 7 ½ minutes on the field to produce a goal if at this time is still tied.
3) Golden goal. Briefly implemented by FIFA and abandoned quickly in the 90’s. I hope it will never come back.
4) 32m-5 sec shootout attempts (tried in MLS from 1996 to 1999). Personally I never liked it and for a good reason it went away.
5) Attacker Defender Goalkeeper (ADG, this is a variation of the MLS shootout), which features a series of ten contests, in which an attacker from the kick-off spot and has thirty seconds to score a goal against a defender and goalkeeper. At the completion of the ten contests, the team with the most goals is the winner. The idea is to have all players involved in the final outcome in a more like-game scenario. In this proposal all 11 players will be paired 1v1 along with the respective goalkeepers when they defend.
6) 7v4 tiebreaker. Both teams name 2 mini-teams composed one of 7 attacking players and the other of 3 defending players plus the goalkeeper. They take turns on 30 sec attempts starting from 32m of goal. The attempt ends if the ball goes out of bounds by the attacking team or the clock runs out. If the defending team wins possession it must pass the ball until the clock stops or send it out (only through the sidelines or center line), corner kicks are taken by the attacking team with the clock stopping while the ball is not in play. Note the huge advantage of the team attacking for a corner kick or even for open play but how a minimum error can lead to missing the attempt all together but the proposal involves all 11 players in the process.
7) Moving the penalty spot 2.25 meters further for the penalty shootout (13.25 instead of 11 meters, or half the distance from the penalty spot (11m) to the penalty box line (16.5m)). This will decrease the number of successful attempts reducing the luck factor. Better goalkeepers and better free kick specialists will have an edge instead. The idea is to erase the memory of those who fail and remember those who produced outstanding dead ball kicks, similarly to the actual game when we seldom remember someone who missed a free-kick.
8] Using elements of the game as a tie breaker as proposed by some (most shots on goal, most corner kicks awarded, fewest cautions and sendings-off, ) I find this to be ridiculous since in some cases it is too casual to go back and count things that are too tangential in the game or it will give too much decision power to the referee.

It will interesting to read what some think about these proposals or some ideas that are not covered on my list.
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Re: Changing the Rules

Postby quaazi » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:28 am

Those are some intriguing ideas there. Playing extra time AFTER a penalty shootout would be brutal but hilarious to watch. :lol:
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Re: Changing the Rules

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:55 pm

I have supported the ADG method for some years. Never heard of the first proposal before but I like that A LOT.


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Re: Changing the Rules

Postby JANCKER » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:33 pm

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Re: Changing the Rules

Postby nm462272 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:36 pm

MAYBE 4... but 3 seems to work just fine.
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