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What positions does Bayern Munich need to strengthen?

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What positions does Bayern Munich need to strengthen?

Postby Manchu » Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:57 am

All to often, people focus on buying "the best" players without considering how these players would fit into the team's squad and plans for next season. This leads to such nonsensical ideas such as "Griezmann to Bayern" when Bayern is the single squad in the world which has the least room form Griezmann.

This thread is not about big name transfers. It's about identifying areas where the team should be strengthened or needs more players for next season and beyond and finding sensible, preferably cheap, transfers to fill those voids. Transfers are about the needs of the club and not the name recognition of the player.

We need a new backup keeper with Starke and Ulreich apparently leaving. Who's available on free transfer or for a low fee who's willing to sit on the bench, or should we just rely on a youth team player? Should we finally bring Adler to Bayern?

With Sule, Badstuber, Javi Martinez, Boateng, and Hummels, we're good for centerbacks. In fact, it makes sense to play Javi in the midfield because we're so stacked, rotate our centerbacks frequently, or even loan someone out.

With Kimmich, Rudy, and Rafinha, we're good for rightbacks.

With Alaba, we've got an excellent, young left back. However, Bernat is apparently angling to leave, and we don't have another backup. We can play Badstuber as the backup(letting him get more playing time), find someone else, play one of the rightbacks as an inverted fullback, or promote a youth player if we have one who is good enough. What should we do?

With Kimmich, Thiago, Rudy, Vidal, Sanches, and Martinez, we're in excellent shape in central midfield. Notably, theoretically Thiago, Rudy, (maybe) Sanches, and (maybe) Kimmich can be play as registas, so we have no shortage there.

In terms of attacking center mid, we just have Muller and Thiago. This might not be a problem, though, because we just need to fill one place in the starting 11.

On the outside, we have Robben, Ribery, Costa, and Coman. Ignoring the potential transfer of Brandt(who could easily fill in the center), is it a good idea to sign anyone else?

Finally, upfront we have Lewandowski and no one else. Muller doesn't work as a lone center forward in our current system, so we desperately need some sort of backup. Who can we find?

Any other thoughts? What players fit into this squad next season that we should sign or promote from the youth team? Should we loan anyone for more playing time? What areas are fine for next season but need to be improved for the future?
Last edited by Manchu on Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What positions does Bayern Munich need to strengthen?

Postby German-American » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:17 am

For striker would someone like Bas Dost be good? He is scoring a lot of goals and knows the BuLi. He would get playing time to, it's not like we can buy some no name who can't score a lot.


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What positions does Bayern Munich need to strengthen?

Postby pyrasur » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:31 am

What sometimes surprises me is how (forgive me for struggling to find the proper words here) "uninterchangeable" some of our positions are. For example, at striker in the past few seasons we've had one central striker capable of doing the job. Pizza was the last capable backup we had, and in his last season or two even he would get passed over for someone else. We tried Götze and Müller, and it felt like Müller could get the job done (in Pep's first season IIRC we tore open Man City with Müller floating around up top).

However lately no one but Robert Lewandowski is capable of getting the job done up top. It's almost to the point it feels like the coaches would rather play with 10 than have any another player up top. I wonder how much Lewy's dominance is a gift and a curse, because other teams are capable of having players fill in. Maybe it's because the other teams don't have the same high standards, and that's why teams like Gladbach don't look (that) much worse if Hazard or Hahn replaces Raffael (maybe not Hahn he's pretty bad).

Still, when you assemble such high level players I expect some to be able to play more than one position, unless the team is so built around one players characteristics that only one player will do. Or that requirements in other positions preclude them playing elsewhere. For example, the reason Kimmich plays in midfield is no one depends on him to play right back, whereas I think Alaba is the more talented midfielder, but who plays left back because we need a top left back.

Just my scatterbrained two cents.
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Re: What positions does Bayern Munich need to strengthen?

Postby ander_ct » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:07 am

Xabi's role, a creative CM like Verratti
The wings, world class players, no necessary like Costa or Ribery style.
Right back, for me Kimmich doesn't fit it
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Re: What positions does Bayern Munich need to strengthen?

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:48 am

GK
ST
Winger

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Re: What positions does Bayern Munich need to strengthen?

Postby Manchu » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:22 am

ander_ct wrote:Xabi's role, a creative CM like Verratti

We already will have two registas, with Thiago being excellent and Rudy being pretty damn good. Moreover, we have no fewer than three central defenders with right skill set to play the position, Hummels, Boeteng, and Badstuber, so in a pinch we could always convert players. Not to mention Sanches. In fact, that's the position where we have the most players for, other than centerback.

The wings, world class players, no necessary like Costa or Ribery style.
Right back, for me Kimmich doesn't fit it

If you have any suggestions for an acceptably cheap player we can get as a replacement for Robbery, be my guest. Even in goalimpact terms, the only good wingers(as in are on the top 50 list for best players) under 25 million euros that show up are Pedro, Theo Walcott, and Xherdin Shaqiri, and that's a method designed to find undervalued players. Moreover, as long as Ribery and Robben's performance doesn't collapse next season, we should be able to get away with our current wingers.

Right back is also a position that we'd be well set for even if Kimmich turned out to be a complete failure. We're one of the very few top clubs(the only other one that comes to mind is Real Madrid) which doesn't have horrible problems with lacking good fullbacks.
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Re: What positions does Bayern Munich need to strengthen?

Postby Coman » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:57 am

- one left-back if Bernat leaves (Ghoulam, Kolasinac, Friedl)
- one winger/wide playmaker if Douglas Costa leaves (Brandt, Bernardo Silva, Lemar)
- one striker for the present and the future (André Silva, Dolberg, Mbappe)

I don't see the board to take another midfielder with Vidal, Thiago, Sanches and Rudy + Martinez who could play there more often. Even if there is only one good deep-playmaker in the list.


Buying Rudy, Süle, Kolasinac, Brandt and André Silva for €100M and selling Bernat and Douglas Costa for €80M and I would be happy.
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Neuer- Boateng Vidal Hummels- Kimmich Martinez Alaba- Robben James Ribéry- Lewandowski
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Re: What positions does Bayern Munich need to strengthen?

Postby PunkCapitalist » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:00 pm

In order of priority;

One must:
LW (My pick is Alexis)

Rest are question marks:
ST if there are interesting opportunities on the market
RB if Kimmich will not be it
LB if Bernat leaves
GK if Ulreich leaves (and if Fruchtl won't be trusted)

Ideally, bringing in Alexis solves the LW AND backup ST problems in a single shot, Kimmich accepts to be the new Lahm and no one leaves besides Badstuber, Benatia and Costa (provided that Alexis comes). We would have a perfect squad then (disregard formation, this is just to show depth);

LW: Alexis/Ribsy/Coman
ST: Lewy/Alexis/Müller
RW: Müller/Robben/Coman
CAM:Thiago/Müller/Ribsy
CM:Vidal/Renato/Thiago
DM/Regista:Thiago/Javi/Rudy
CD: Boateng/Hummels/Süle/Javi
LB: Alaba/Bernat
RB: Kimmich/Rafinha/Rudy
GK: Neuer/Fruchtl

Plenty of quality AND depth for every position, and we can play in whichever formation/tactics out coach might think about.







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Re: What positions does Bayern Munich need to strengthen?

Postby Larhm » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:15 pm

Wings. After Robbery is gone, we are only left with Coman and Costa. Coman cant put in a proper cross. Costa can't score.
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Re: What positions does Bayern Munich need to strengthen?

Postby Manchu » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:03 pm

Manchu wrote:
In terms of attacking center mid, we just have Muller and Thiago. This might not be a problem, though, because we just need to fill one place in the starting 11.

With regards to the game today, it seems like we do desperately need another creative attacking central mid, preferably someone who can play some other positioin normally and play in the center when we can't play our full lineup. The obvious choices are Julian Brandt and James Rodriguez, but getting either is for next season is not a very sure thing. Any ideas for other players that might fit this role that we could get over the summer or next year? Right now the situation isn't desperate because we have Ribery who could theoretically be able to fill in in the center, but he's ever so slowly on his way out and has a dodgy injury record.
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Re: What positions does Bayern Munich need to strengthen?

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:06 pm

Not needed. Costa can play, or what we saw late in the second half when Ribery came in can still work. Besides, if one or two games without either Thiago or Müller means a maximum of two losses a season, the league is still won. I want Brandt to come but not for that reason.
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Re: What positions does Bayern Munich need to strengthen?

Postby Aequitas1987 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:08 pm

This is an interesting question to attempt to solve because there are so many variables to consider.

Firstly as we are talking position-ally - the depth in a position in my opinion depends on two things - quality and formation.

I am going to attempt to use our CB pool for next season as an example.

MEASURING DEPTH
By quality for e.g. how many of the CB's do we have that are WC i.e. against any opponent and CL worthy (Hummels, Boateng, Martinez) and how many of them would only cut it in the Bundesliga (Badstuber... :cry: ) or are not finished products just yet and one cant be sure will be in a seasons time (Sule).

The second thing we need to look at is obviously the formation because that defines what is considered 'having quality depth'. For e.g. if we are playing a formation with 3 at the back then going into a season with 3 WC CB's puts the season at risk if one of them has a long term injury or an injury at a crucial stage of the season. I am very much aware that any 3 in the back adds Alaba to the pool and therefore we have enough coverage currently for next season even with a 3 in the back setup (4 WC players).

Bayern is as usual expected to fight on all fronts and put on 11 WC players on the pitch at the very least for all the big games. Knowing all this how does one decide upon what position needs strengthening? In my mind we have one of two ways to go about it and it all comes down to the 'ego/man management' skills of Ancelotti.

Depending on the position number requirement of the formation > We go for that number + 1 WC player as surplus & rotation. This is where Ancelotti who is famed for his player management skills needs to excel being able to handle +surplus WC players for a position. So for example in a 3-4-3 - We would require 4 WC CB's.

The other option we have is to meet the positional number requirement in WC players and gamble on one or two individuals (depending on the requirement) who are not quite WC yet and hope that one of them has a breakthrough and considerable evolution in the course of our WC players getting injured. So for example in a 3-4-3 - we would require 3 WC CB's + 2 High Potential CB's.

FORMATION
Now that the hypothetical is out the way - We got to bet on a formation. I would be insanely surprised if a coach like Ancelotti would opt to go for any 3 at the back kind of setup (3-4-3, 3-5-2 etc) my best estimate is that Ancelotti is going to opt for a 4-3-2-1 (Tree) for next season focusing more on playing through the center with FB's providing the width and when occasionally employing the 4-2-3-1 with direct wingers than with high impact indirect wingers impact (in a way coming to an end of the Robbery era that is impossible to replicate in todays market).

PRIMARY VS SECONDARY QUOTA
In order of importance which positions are more crucial in a tree.
CM/DM/REGISTA/CDM = PRIMARY QUOTA
FBs = PRIMARY QUOTA
SS/RAM/LAM/CAM = PRIMARY QUOTA
STRIKERS = PRIMARY QUOTA
WINGERS = SECONDARY QUOTA
CBS = SECONDARY QUOTA

THE POSITIONS

CB(2) Hummels, Boateng, Martinez, Sule, Badstuber = 3 WC + 2 High Potential =NO BUY Way above surplus of secondary quota
LB(1) Alaba, Bernat = 1 WC + 1 Journeyman = NO BUY. We are gambling on Alaba's fitness here and there really isn't any ideal options on the market. In the tree formation there is a lot expected from FB's in attack especially in providing width and assists. Bernat would have to improve considerably to fit that mold. Luckily, Alaba's injury record being fairly spotless eases that concern.
RB(1) Kimmich, Rafinha, Rudy = 1 WC + 1 High Potential + 1 Journeyman = NO BUY = I am very biased towards Kimmich and his ability on the field at RB, I know its a pretty far fetched claim to call him WC right now but I have little doubt that he can become a WC player by next season if he is given the opportunity to play there. Rafinha is a much much better Journeyman than Bernat and therefore even with Kimmich or Rudy underperforming we still have a RB who can create some form of width and add some danger.
CM/Box to Box/Regista/DM(3) Thiago, Vidal, Rudy, Renato, Javi = 3 WC + 2 High Potential = BUY Under surplus based on primary quota - we need another WC player in this position as both Rudy & Renato are high potential players with not as much of a sure shot guarantee that they can become WC in a season. To top it off both the Spaniards have a very spotty injury record - just rings alarm bells in my head all round.
CAM/RAM/LAM/SS(2) Thiago, Muller, Coman, Robben, Ribery, Costa = 4 WC + 2 High Potential = NO BUY Way above surplus of primary quota - even if all three of Thiago, Robben and Ribery get season long injuries - We still have Muller + Coman&Costa for the two spots.
STRIKERS(1) Lewandowski, Muller = 2 WC BUY = Under surplus considering a lot of play time might be demanded of Muller in the attacking midfield positions. Need to go for a high potential youngster in case of Lewandowski issues - Again, Alaba like fitness eases the concern.

TAKEAWAYS
+ Spend big on a WC Midfielder - Veratti? James? Carasso?
+ Spend small on high potential backup striker
+ As Robbery are getting older they will play more centrally
- The most important WC player for Ancelotti to manage will be Martinez
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Re: What positions does Bayern Munich need to strengthen?

Postby sch0ll7 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:10 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:In order of priority;

One must:
LW (My pick is Alexis)

Rest are question marks:
ST if there are interesting opportunities on the market
RB if Kimmich will not be it
LB if Bernat leaves
GK if Ulreich leaves (and if Fruchtl won't be trusted)

Ideally, bringing in Alexis solves the LW AND backup ST problems in a single shot, Kimmich accepts to be the new Lahm and no one leaves besides Badstuber, Benatia and Costa (provided that Alexis comes). We would have a perfect squad then (disregard formation, this is just to show depth);



I would also like us to bring Alexis...he solves our backup ST problem and will be great when it comes to our offensive wing play now that Robben and Ribery are not that young anymore and will retire in the near future.
We are a big club and if we want it to stay that way we need to bring top class players in. Alexis is top class and we need those kind of players and we know what we get with him.
Coman and Costa are good but they will probably never be world class if you ask me. They can be good squad players and get playing time but we cant expect them to be like Robbery.

Our defenders are all top class. Love Sule and I think he is one of the biggest CB prospects in the world.. so we have 4 top CB options with him coming. LB is secure with Alaba and if Bernat leaves [which I would love] we need to bring some top young talent to learn from Alaba.

About RB and MC...if we want Kimmich to play as RB we need another top class MC because Alonso is leaving and I think Rudy came in to be a squad player. We got Alonso because we needed someone with great game control and passing after Kroos left. So if we want to compete with top teams we need someone like Veratti who can do that and is a top player.

I never was a transfer muppet but if we want to continue being one of the top clubs we need top players and not just hope our youngsters will rise to the challenge. Lahm, Alonso, Ribery and Robben all world class players are on their way out and we need to find a suiting replacement.
Alexis is the right choice for LW position and we wont need 100mil € for him as he only has 1 year left on his contract. I say splash some 40 mil€ and offer him top wages.

We really cant find a like for like replacement for Lahm and there isnt any top RB on the market so I would just stick with Kimmich until maybe something comes up in a year or two.

But another position I would splash money is MC. We have something like 100-150mil€ cash reserves and we will have some 20mil€ [after tax] salary surplus after Lahm and Alonso leave so just splash money on Veratti or someone like him. I cant get over us losing Kroos as he is the guy who would be perfect.
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Re: What positions does Bayern Munich need to strengthen?

Postby Pelin » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:22 pm

-WC Winger who can change the game alone.
-Back up GK.Adler
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Re: What positions does Bayern Munich need to strengthen?

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:00 am

RB
AM, whether it's a n10 or a winger...(think the team will need to get one top player that will be either a CM or an attacker next season)


CF
GK

Both lewandowski and neuer are usually dependable players (healthwise) and Muller can slip in CF at times as well.

Utility attacker. In terms of decent pricing, I would imagine both OX and Isco to be sold for fair deals.... OX has played CM and all 3 attacking spots at arsenal and isco has had time playing cm in the 4-3-3 and can play SS/CAM.

RB: I still take a stab at Aurier. His service would do wonders for Lewandowski (15-16 level) and give RObben/Costa fresh legs...

RB is a limited market imo. Not many great players at this position. Another option would be to scout Ligue 1
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