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Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby MUTU » Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:44 pm

tflags wrote:Being part of the 'best team of the tournament' coming off from the cup winning team is nothing new. Thing is, it was Bastian, Boateng and Neuer as the lauded players; not Kroos.

Except in the official player ratings of FIFA, Kroos was THE player of the tournament. [source]


tflags wrote:My question is, MUTU, are you actually under the impression Kroos could have AT ANY TIME benched Iniesta or Xavi? Because that sure as hell was what Thiago was against during his development years. Your comment was extremely unfair, to say the least.

When you put it like that, no, but he'd probably have seen more playing time. Yes, it was a disadvantage for Thiago, but really this argument is out of context. We're not talking about what could have been, but who is better at the present time. And, despite your best effort to try and convince me otherwise, I'm not convinced and neither is the neutral footballing world which keeps awarding Kroos with individual awards (including 2 this year) but Thiago is never ever considered.

BTW, one thing to ponder on is, if Kroos was Spanish, would he have been capped only 14 times? You know, Xavi's retired now and Iniesta's 32 but Thiago still hasn't cemented a regular place in the Spanish NT.
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby PunkCapitalist » Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:15 pm

MUTU wrote:
tflags wrote:Being part of the 'best team of the tournament' coming off from the cup winning team is nothing new. Thing is, it was Bastian, Boateng and Neuer as the lauded players; not Kroos.

Except in the official player ratings of FIFA, Kroos was THE player of the tournament. [source]


tflags wrote:My question is, MUTU, are you actually under the impression Kroos could have AT ANY TIME benched Iniesta or Xavi? Because that sure as hell was what Thiago was against during his development years. Your comment was extremely unfair, to say the least.

When you put it like that, no, but he'd probably have seen more playing time. Yes, it was a disadvantage for Thiago, but really this argument is out of context. We're not talking about what could have been, but who is better at the present time. And, despite your best effort to try and convince me otherwise, I'm not convinced and neither is the neutral footballing world which keeps awarding Kroos with individual awards (including 2 this year) but Thiago is never ever considered.

BTW, one thing to ponder on is, if Kroos was Spanish, would he have been capped only 14 times? You know, Xavi's retired now and Iniesta's 32 but Thiago still hasn't cemented a regular place in the Spanish NT.

Oh, come on Mutu, do you really agree with FIFA's award? Was Kroos really a top 3 player for Germany on 2014WC? IMO, he wasn't... At least Neuer, Boa, Bastian were all better.

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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby FCB general » Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:27 pm

MUTU wrote:BTW, one thing to ponder on is, if Kroos was Spanish, would he have been capped only 14 times? You know, Xavi's retired now and Iniesta's 32 but Thiago still hasn't cemented a regular place in the Spanish NT.

This is what goes in favor of those people who say he still hasn't proved himself and I must agree with that. Red highlighted is very, very strong argument.

I completely exclude Kroos' discussion because he isn't our player anymore nor he really played that great role in our team.

It's just Thiago who has been struggling for 5 years to build up his career. I also find a very strong argument in someone like Guardiola who didn't dare to replace Xavi with Thiago, just as he didn't dare to do the same with Fabregas back then. Yet, he had brought him to München using strong words about Thiago and again after 3 seasons and the Spaniard's escape from Iniesta and Xavi under the guidance of the same maestro he didn't reach the top level nor he replaced Bastian as a midfield leader which is what I see in Thiago and which was seen in Kroos when was our member.

All in all, I see no BIG difference between Götze and Thiago. In 2013 I was euphoric because I thought we solved our future and fully prepared to be the first team to defend the CL title since everything was in our favor, but 3 years later with these two guys story is completely different.

Both are truly great talents, just like Isco who is also a great Spanish talent and the same story about his place in the Spain NT goes on, but you can't use that term forever and live of that.

You either reach the expected level or you just remain a story about an unproven talent. That's how it goes.
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby MUTU » Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:34 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:Oh, come on Mutu, do you really agree with FIFA's award? Was Kroos really a top 3 player for Germany on 2014WC? IMO, he wasn't... At least Neuer, Boa, Bastian were all better.

I don't agree he was topmost (for me that was Neuer), but in top 3 definitely.
Topping it off, he won the German Player of the Year few months after the World Cup [source]

A season later, he was in the last 10 candidates for the UEFA Best Player in Europe award.

Now, I'm not really an overwhelming Kroos fan. I don't agree with most of his awards. I think he's slow. I think he's lazy. But I also think he's better than Thiago.

I, MUTU, would approve of a player-for-player swap with Real Madrid.
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby Coman » Fri Sep 16, 2016 4:44 pm

Saying Thiago is better than Kroos is a little bit like saying Rafinha is better than Lahm. In less worst of course.
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby aterford » Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:15 pm

So what does Kroos have to do with a Thiago transfer thread anyways?
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby tflags » Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:19 pm

MUTU wrote:And, despite your best effort to try and convince me otherwise, I'm not convinced and neither is the neutral footballing world which keeps awarding Kroos with individual awards (including 2 this year) but Thiago is never ever considered.


I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You are quoting wikipedia with a list of awards based on Castrol ratings and the like. I'm giving you articles written by people who actually love the game; not statistical markers. Castrol rated Mario Gómez higher than Messi at a point in CL season. I mean that is how interesting statistics are.

As for his place on the NT; sure, that is one point you have made. Under Del Bosque he shared spaces with Fabregas. But I wouldn't go as far as saying he's not exactly a NT selectee either. He climbed up the ranks as Spain's U-XX captain for crying out loud. What's wrong with you? :P

How many games have Spain played under the new coach? Two? How many has he started so far? Two? Nah, I think the cement has to dry up a bit before passing judgment on that one.
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby Roonzil » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:08 pm

MUTU wrote:And, despite your best effort to try and convince me otherwise, I'm not convinced and neither is the neutral footballing world which keeps awarding Kroos with individual awards (including 2 this year) but Thiago is never ever considered.


There is no such thing as the neutral footballing world... :P
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby Roonzil » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:48 pm

Seems like Thiago changed agents, according to Mundo Deportivo Pere Guardiola is no longer his agent, but his father is. (unless google translate is lying to me)

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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby SchwanMunich » Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:28 pm

I hope Thiago keeps developing and stays healthy, he's a very good player. However, Kroos is WAY better without a doubt.
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby rthebest » Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:48 am

SchwanMunich wrote:I hope Thiago keeps developing and stays healthy, he's a very good player. However, Kroos is WAY better without a doubt.


You can't compare them they are different kind of players.
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby AllensRoten » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:04 am

rthebest wrote:
SchwanMunich wrote:I hope Thiago keeps developing and stays healthy, he's a very good player. However, Kroos is WAY better without a doubt.


You can't compare them they are different kind of players.

Not that different imo. They both have the responsibility of intelligently moving the ball around in a deeper part of the field with a minor role on defensive duties. Only real difference is Thiago's flashiness.
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:00 am

I prefer our #6 hands down.
However I want / expect more from him he can do better.

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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby MillaMjau » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:59 am

Das Runde muss ins Eckige!
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby Coman » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:20 pm

His father, Mazinho, ex Brazilian world champion, said few months ago than he would like to see Thiago back at Barcelona if I'm not mistaken.

In fact he fired an agent who was link with Pep Guardiola for "possible" a transfer in Manchester to an agent who want him in Barcelona.

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