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Robbery's successors

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Robbery's successors

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:09 pm

So... I know we have talked about this in several threads, but I think we should have a single unified place to talk the Robbery-succession question.

As some of you may know, I'm an advocate of Coman's potential and also think Costa is -at best- only good enough for rotation. I will further put my view in writing to begin discussion:

- Costa: not smart enough, very unproductive, random crossing, dribbles without an objective, very unproductive Infront of goal. Too old to improve significantly (this is the key factor for me). Verredict: only good as a rotation option, not as the main man on either wing. Note: would like to see him tried at the RW on a consistent basis.

- Coman: let's get it out of the way; he isn't a finished product and thus can't (and shouldn't be expected to) replace Robbery in the short term. Having said that, his dribbling is great, he *has* scored some awesome goals, his crossing is just as good as Costa's at a much younger age, he has speed and technical qualities. 20yo (almost 21). Verredict: will he develop into a worthy successor? We don't know, but I think it's possible.

- Alexis: plug and play worthy successor in the short term. Would be 29 in the summer, so we can only expect 4 years of top class from him. Would be cheap. Verredict: buy, this guy can win us trophies while we develop Coman or wait for someone else to come or develop.

Questions:

- our very own @Coman speaks about Bernardo Silva quite a lot. Haven't watch him play a full match EVER, so I don't feel I can assess him. His YouTube highlights don't seem to impressive, but I'll try to catch Monaco's return leg against Shitty. Seems he would be insanely expensive. Would like to read a full description of his specific characteristics (does he dribble, is he good at crossing, is he good at cutting in, etc?).

-Dembele: only youngster I've watched that is almost 100% sure to become a major superstar. Can't believe we missed on him and recent Costa's presence here even more because of it. Will he be gettable in the future? Idk ... Incredible dribbling, good going against goal, great crosser, creative, INCREDIBLY two-footed... Breathtaking prospect.

-Sané: I cheerled for us to get him in the summer. We missed on him. Beyond our grasp in the short term.

-Gnabry: every single goal and thing I've seen from him was thanks to good finishing. I don't think finishing is what we need. We need dribbling and creativity. I see him more as a false 9 than as a proper inside-winger. Not a fan of him.

Let's stick to players bayern would have a reasonable chance of getting. No need to suggest Hazard ;)

Squawka comparisons asap to enrich the conversation.

Image

My main takeaway from this is a confirmation of my impression from the YouTube Bernardo Silva highlights and what I have seen from Gnabry: neither seems to be much of a dribbler... and also; Dembele's stats are absolutely INSANE for a player that age... He betters Alexis (a WC player on his prime in several key stats!!!).

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Re: Robbery's successors

Postby Coman » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:21 pm

Good thread.

Bernardo Silva is just the best french L1 player this season with Cavani and Verratti.

How he played against Manchester City is more or less how he plays for one year. Just watch the commentary of every people having Watched City - Monaco or watch the game when you have 2 free-hours.

If there is Gnabry and Coman in your list you can add Julian Brandt too. He is the definition of smart wing-player.

For me the possible dream would be Silva and Brandt. Dembele instead of Brandt if he didn't have such a long-term contract in Dortmund.
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Re: Robbery's successors

Postby JANCKER » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:25 pm

I know who'd be the nearly perfect replacements but nearly impossible to sign... Hazard(Rib) and Mane(Rob) for me. I will leave it to :reschke: to find something similar or even better available in the market.
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Re: Robbery's successors

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:26 pm

Hazard is the only one. Before Jose, he was a lazy sack like KDB, but after Jose and company he became a good 2 way player...
He's end game isn't Chelsea. It will be in a bigger club and he even said that once he wins the league again there is a good chance he leaves Chelsea/England. Like many, he wants Real madrid though......

Sanchez is another great option, but honestly, Hazard is the most ideal replacement for RIbery... These young guys are good, but I would have Douglas Costa over all of them outside of Dembele.

PSG will be interesting. They have DI Maria, Draxler, Lucas, Pastore, that young argentine and the 2 young frenchies. No way they can keep all of them next year
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Re: Robbery's successors

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm

As per @Jancker 's request, I added Brandt and two others. Scale might not match, but numbers do.

Image

Yes, Hazard is pretty much THE perfect replacement for Ribery... But let's face it... We aren't getting him ;) If he moves, he would do so for a record fee (Madrid most likely).
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Re: Robbery's successors

Postby Coman » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm

Problem is football isn't just about stats.

Stats never say how the player move or when the player does the best possible choice every time he got the ball.

And that kind of stats when the player have for some different championship, different coach, different team mates and different order from their coach ... A little useless.

I live football by feeling by watching game. Not by stats.

Coman has better stats than Bernardo Silva but I bet my job Coman wouldn't have done half what Bernardo Silva has done with Monaco against Manchester City.
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Re: Robbery's successors

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:42 pm

You are right Coman. Stats are limited for football, I only use them to support/confirm/disprove impressions from watching the players and also to generate discussion ;) for instance, you haven't actually commented on Silva's dribbling.

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Re: Robbery's successors

Postby JANCKER » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:49 pm

I think that there was a moment when I doubted in Hazard and thought that he was overrated... :P whatever, he was always the one who reminded me most of Ribery.
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Re: Robbery's successors

Postby Coman » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:56 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:you haven't actually commented on Silva's dribbling.


Actually I find in Bernardo Silva a good dribbler but not a player who has to dribble for first aim on the field .. he is here to didacte the game whatever if it's by passes, acceleration, dribbles or else. Very smart player with high technical capabilities. For me he is like a mix of Robben and David Silva.

Most of the time, all what he did ... is the thing to do. This is football IQ.



PunkCapitalist wrote:You are right Coman. Stats are limited for football, I only use them to support/confirm/disprove impressions from watching the players and also to generate discussion ;)


Good, because Alejandro Gomez (Atalanta), Federico Fazio (Roma), Wylan Cyprien (Nice), Bruno Soriano (Villarreal) and Francesco Acerbi (Sassuolo) and Loic Perrin (ASSE) are in the TOP 20 of the best players in the world according to Sqwaka stats,
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Re: Robbery's successors

Postby German-American » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:24 pm

To me having the high pass rate is critical. Our team is most efficient with everyone involved
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Re: Robbery's successors

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:33 am

In my opinion we should keep Coman and see how he develops. He could turn out to be a great successor, or he could keep the backup role he currently has.

We need to sign an absolute top player to replace either side of Robbery. Guys like Sanchez, Hazard, maybe Griezmann. I don't consider the likes of Sane in this category. Doesn't matter if he's old. Heck, bring Cristiano Ronaldo for all I care about age :P

On the other side we should get a an already-good youngster with potential: Sane, Dembele, Gnabry, Brandt... In this way we get a good player, probably not so expensive, and our wingers won't be the same age so that we want have the same problem of having to replace both wingers at the same time in the future.

Coman could end up replacing one of these. Doesn't matter, the important thing is that we have someone to rely on on the bench. In an ideal world, Coman and the young winger would play together when Sanchez retires.

Costa should be phased out within a year or two if he doesn't leave this summer.

Alternatively, just ditch wingers.


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Re: Robbery's successors

Postby Pelin » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:14 am

l'd go for Dembele or B.Silva.
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Re: Robbery's successors

Postby Alduin » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:09 am

B. Silva is quite impressive. Dembele is also really good. I want Alexis for the short term and ditch Costa. We need smart players with fighting spirit.

The dream is Hazard but he would be quite difficult to get.
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Re: Robbery's successors

Postby aterford » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:31 am

Stats are important, unless they go against your preconceived biases, then you can throw them out the window ;)

I don't rate Bernardo Silva as highly as others. I've watched Monaco quite a bit this season and I think he is a good player but no more talented than Brandt, Sane, or CoCo. I think Lemar is the much better player IMO.
Honestly best case for me would have been to snag Dembele before Dortmund did and let one of Robben/Ribery's contracts go... Both club legends, I know, but we're kinda being held hostage by them at this point and I don't wanna turn into AC Milan. Still perhaps a year or two from now he would be a good get. But he has also made it clear he wants a Barca move and by the time we're ready to buy him that may very well be an option for them as well.

Though I must admit I think you're being a bit harsh on Costa; he was superb last season and even in limited minutes he's been quite good this year-not as good as last season, but all of our wingers have had some trouble adjusting to Carlo's systems IMO. But at the same time he's kinda hitting his prime right now. I like Costa but if China wants to pay €60m for him then I won't be sad to see him go.

While I think he'd be a good fit and able to make an impact immediately, I don't love the idea of signing Sanchez as we'd be pretty much in the same spot we're in right now in a couple of years. Rather have a more long-term fix.
I actually rate Carrasco quite highly but he's reportedly got a €100m release clause and I don't see us going that route unless he absolutely lights on fire soon.
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Re: Robbery's successors

Postby nnemani92 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:12 am

I think Coman can be a good long term fix at RW provided he stays fit. For LW I think getting Sanchez for now makes the most sense provided he can keep his wage demands reasonable as in he can't just come in and ask to be paid equal to Lewandowski. We did the something similar with Götze and he was probably the only screwed up high profile Bayern signing in recent memory. Not saying that his high wages had anything to do with his performance, just that he should only have been paid that kind of money if he actually did well at the club.If Sanchez does well I'm okay with his contract being renegotiated at a later date, say two years or a year and half later. Although I do think he should be able to slot in without much difficulty. With the younger folks none of the valuations makes sense to me.
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