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Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby Coman » Fri May 26, 2017 10:59 am

That's why he has to stay next season. After that...
For good football : Neuer - Kimmich, Boateng, Hummels, Alaba - Vidal (Tolisso), Thiago (Tolisso) - Robben, Müller (James), James (Ribéry) - Lewandowski

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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby bastos80 » Fri May 26, 2017 11:01 am

MUTU wrote:
bastos80 wrote:Rationally, if we have doubts about him AND can get a very good sum for him WHILE we can sign a proven replacement (i.e Verratti for Alonso, Goretzka for Sanches), we should sell him.
When he flops/shines for another team then, this is no longer our concern. We would avoid a financial disaster if he flops while maintaining quality. If he plays well for a different team, well then that's just the way it is. He wouldn't be the first player like that.

Of course it's our concern. A big concern too. It would make Bayern look really bad if Sanches leaves in Summer and does really well in the rest of his career. In fact, the better he does, the worse we'd look. Which young player would want to take the risk of joining us after that?


"Which young player would want to take the risk of joining us after that?"
I keep hearing that. That's complete speculation without any foundation. He's not the first young player that flopped here and he won't be the last. The situation isn't any different at any club in the world. Or is it suddenly a different situation because he cost us that much money?
It's better to end this chapter if there is any doubt about his ability than risking to put 60 million € down the drain.
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby MUTU » Fri May 26, 2017 11:02 am

Coman wrote:That's why he has to stay next season. After that...

Yes, I agree. If he flops next season, he'll probably flop in the rest of his career. If we sell him then, we're safe (OK we'd have lost a bunch of millions in the process).

If he plays up to his expectations, then we'd be trolling the people who wanted to show him the door.
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby MUTU » Fri May 26, 2017 11:07 am

bastos80 wrote:
MUTU wrote:
bastos80 wrote:Rationally, if we have doubts about him AND can get a very good sum for him WHILE we can sign a proven replacement (i.e Verratti for Alonso, Goretzka for Sanches), we should sell him.
When he flops/shines for another team then, this is no longer our concern. We would avoid a financial disaster if he flops while maintaining quality. If he plays well for a different team, well then that's just the way it is. He wouldn't be the first player like that.

Of course it's our concern. A big concern too. It would make Bayern look really bad if Sanches leaves in Summer and does really well in the rest of his career. In fact, the better he does, the worse we'd look. Which young player would want to take the risk of joining us after that?


"Which young player would want to take the risk of joining us after that?"
I keep hearing that. That's complete speculation without any foundation. He's not the first young player that flopped here and he won't be the last. The situation isn't any different at any club in the world. Or is it suddenly a different situation because he cost us that much money?
It's better to end this chapter if there is any doubt about his ability than risking to put 60 million € down the drain.

Is it complete speculation without any foundation? Really? Not the first young player to flop here, true, but I can't name a single young player who left Bayern at an early age and became really great with the exception of Hummels who we got back anyway.

If Renato Sanches becomes world class after Bayern, young players considering a move to Bayern will ask the question "if even the world-class Renato Sanches flopped at Bayern, what are my chances?"

It's nothing about the price. It's about selling a young player with a high ceiling. If he reaches the ceiling with another club, it would make Bayern look bad. Very bad.
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby bastos80 » Fri May 26, 2017 11:14 am

MUTU wrote:
bastos80 wrote:
MUTU wrote:Of course it's our concern. A big concern too. It would make Bayern look really bad if Sanches leaves in Summer and does really well in the rest of his career. In fact, the better he does, the worse we'd look. Which young player would want to take the risk of joining us after that?


"Which young player would want to take the risk of joining us after that?"
I keep hearing that. That's complete speculation without any foundation. He's not the first young player that flopped here and he won't be the last. The situation isn't any different at any club in the world. Or is it suddenly a different situation because he cost us that much money?
It's better to end this chapter if there is any doubt about his ability than risking to put 60 million € down the drain.

Is it complete speculation without any foundation? Really? Not the first young player to flop here, true, but I can't name a single young player who left Bayern at an early age and became really great with the exception of Hummels who we got back anyway.

If Renato Sanches becomes world class after Bayern, young players considering a move to Bayern will ask the question "if even the world-class Renato Sanches flopped at Bayern, what are my chances?"


Dude, if we sell Sanches, we can back that decision off by showing them how "well" he played and here and how much effort he put into integrating himself into the team. How do you think recruiting players work?


"Hey, would you like to play for our club?"
"No, XYZ flopped here, no way."
"Understandable, have a nice day."

Just take a look at Kimmich and Coman. Just two examples of how young players can do very well here, even though some people might argue that they're not playing enough, which is debatable (Coman was injured and Kimmich just barely got less than last season).
If we can't convey that to players, well THAT would be a problem.

Not the first young player to flop here, true, but I can't name a single young player who left Bayern at an early age and became really great with the exception of Hummels who we got back anyway.

Well, that doesn't really speak for Renato.

Selling Sanches for ~40M to United, signing Verratti for ~80M and Goretzka on a free would be a good deal, from a football perspective and also marketing wise.
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby ramsej84 » Fri May 26, 2017 11:40 am

he will turn good I believe in him...
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby nm462272 » Fri May 26, 2017 1:17 pm

German-American wrote:If these are even remotely true then I will be pissed. IDK what our board is doing with the younglings situation, but they need play them


unfortunately, it's not the board - it's the coach
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby PunkCapitalist » Fri May 26, 2017 1:48 pm

Wow... Already giving up on a 19yo... The most talented 19yo midfielder in Europe...

Let's give Renato a decent chance, under a proper coach who doesn't put him to play the Xavi Hernández role.

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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby bastos80 » Fri May 26, 2017 1:58 pm

nm462272 wrote:
German-American wrote:If these are even remotely true then I will be pissed. IDK what our board is doing with the younglings situation, but they need play them


unfortunately, it's not the board - it's the coach



In the first place it's the player.
Kimmich got around 2500 minutes this season.
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby bastos80 » Fri May 26, 2017 1:59 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:The most talented 19yo midfielder in Europe...


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Says who?

Let's give Renato a decent chance, under a proper coach who doesn't put him to play the Xavi Hernández role.


Yeah sure, when in doubt blame the coach.
The old "Mario Götze" story.
I wonder why we paid €35M (€60M) for a player that is only able to win tackles and not produce a shit ton of lose balls when played in a certain position.
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby nm462272 » Fri May 26, 2017 2:01 pm

bastos80 wrote:
nm462272 wrote:
German-American wrote:If these are even remotely true then I will be pissed. IDK what our board is doing with the younglings situation, but they need play them


unfortunately, it's not the board - it's the coach



In the first place it's the player.
Kimmich got around 2500 minutes this season.


you're not wrong, but it's not either/or... coach needs to show trust in the player, and the player needs to step-up when he's on the field. neither really happened this season, as you know
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby bastos80 » Fri May 26, 2017 2:02 pm

nm462272 wrote:
bastos80 wrote:
nm462272 wrote:unfortunately, it's not the board - it's the coach



In the first place it's the player.
Kimmich got around 2500 minutes this season.


you're not wrong, but it's not either/or... coach needs to show trust in the player, and the player needs to step-up when he's on the field. neither really happened this season, as you know



I thought it was obvious that Ancelotti tried to integrate Sanches into the team at the beginning, but after seeing his deficits paired with the fact that we didn't really get into form he quickly dropped that idea.
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby Pelin » Fri May 26, 2017 2:24 pm

he needed continuity to develop, which was never given by Carlo, because of his son named Alonso. so he deserves another chance. Kalle already confirmed we would have patience with him. so no problem.
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby PunkCapitalist » Fri May 26, 2017 2:31 pm

Renato was not only not given enough minutes to do anything, he was also given roles which are ENTIRELY against his nature... Meh, I'm too lazy to explain. I sure hope the hard isn't retarded enough to lose this one, and certainly for the mediocre players they want to bring in.

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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby bastos80 » Fri May 26, 2017 3:26 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:Renato was not only not given enough minutes to do anything, he was also given roles which are ENTIRELY against his nature...


Really, no.

But you also think Goretzka is a mediocre talent so whatever.
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