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Julian Draxler

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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby #12 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:47 pm

aterford wrote:
#12 wrote:
aterford wrote:It's still kinda funny how it always goes:

"Sane is better than Draxler/Gnabry/Brandt" or "Sane is the one we should have signed, not more Brandts/Gnabrys" or "Sane is the only Bayern quality young german winger out there right now"

and then:

"Here's how Draxler/Brandt/Gnabry are statistically better than Sane in virtually every way"
...
...
...
"yeah, well, I just like Sane better, okay"


I haven't seen those statistics you claim are there... Draxler is not virtually but actually a bench player...
And once again: It's about style of play... Brandt is not one to beat other players 1 on 1, Gnabry is BAAAAAAD at assisting, Draxler is not a 1 on 1 player either, and too slow (actually, they all are...)


Hmm, not one to beat players 1v1?
Successful dribbles per 90:
Sane ~0.5
Brandt ~1
Draxler ~2
Gnabry ~3

Successful take ons:
Sane ~42%
Brandt ~67%
Gnabry ~50%
Draxler ~73%

Additionally: Pass completion percentage - Draxler 92%, Gnabry 89%, Brandt/Sane 80%; in terms of key passes per 90 Draxler is 1st, Brandt 2nd, Gnabry 3rd, Sane 4th; assists per 90 Brandt is first, Draxler 2nd, Gnabry 3rd, Sane 4th; chances created Brandt is 1st, Draxler 2nd, Gnabry 3rd, Sane 4th; Goals scored Gnabry is 1st, Draxler 2nd, Sane 3rd, Brandt 4th.....Brandt, Gnabry, and Draxler are all statistically better 1v1. Gnabry who is "BAAAAAAD at assisting" assists more than Sane per 90, etc etc etc...

All that being said, I don't think Sane is a bad player by any means, and of course we're all allowed to have our preferences...but the idea that he is clearly ahead of the other three, better at 1v1 etc is at best a matter of opinion that's hard to find factual support for....If you like him better, that's your prerogative, but at the end of the day at best I think we can say he's on the same level as the other three, no better.


Well, I do... But somehow I am frequently called out to justify my opinions, while other aren't...

It's mostly a feeling - IF we get a German, I feel that Sané would best fit our squad... Passing out on him, Jesus, Dembélé AND Bernardo to get Brandt is just plain stupid IMHO...
And here's where we are back to my main argument: we need a leftie... Would always come down to that! So yeah, Sané would still be a best fit (of the Germans), you're not gonna convince me of anything else by passing statistics
But again, it's not about Sané being however mich better - just better

Whatever, it's about Draxler... And since we have Coman and Gnabry (and as of yet Ribéry as well!) we have no use for Draxler whatsoever... Since we're most likely getting Goretzka as well, he wouldn't even be a good addition for CM...
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby envagyokazapad » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:38 pm

The question is, when the tendency is that top class attackers sell for 80m+, can we really afford to pass out on Draxler too for the rumored sum of around 40m?

In other words if you take Ribery and Robben out of equation starting from next year, will we really be able to find a talent for as cheap as 40m, and at least as good as Draxler, if/when we really need to?

I disagree that we have no use for him...we can already make use of him, and we can most certainly make use of him past-Ribery/Robben...it's not like his value is going to decrease that much even if he doesn't work out. Imo, this could easily turn out to be a bargain.
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby aterford » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:53 am

envagyokazapad wrote:The question is, when the tendency is that top class attackers sell for 80m+, can we really afford to pass out on Draxler too for the rumored sum of around 40m?

In other words if you take Ribery and Robben out of equation starting from next year, will we really be able to find a talent for as cheap as 40m, and at least as good as Draxler, if/when we really need to?

I disagree that we have no use for him...we can already make use of him, and we can most certainly make use of him past-Ribery/Robben...it's not like his value is going to decrease that much even if he doesn't work out. Imo, this could easily turn out to be a bargain.


I don't rate Draxler quite as high as some, but this is a good point. He might not be the best player available ("available"), but none cheaper...
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:34 am

envagyokazapad wrote:The question is, when the tendency is that top class attackers sell for 80m+, can we really afford to pass out on Draxler too for the rumored sum of around 40m?

In other words if you take Ribery and Robben out of equation starting from next year, will we really be able to find a talent for as cheap as 40m, and at least as good as Draxler, if/when we really need to?

I disagree that we have no use for him...we can already make use of him, and we can most certainly make use of him past-Ribery/Robben...it's not like his value is going to decrease that much even if he doesn't work out. Imo, this could easily turn out to be a bargain.


Exactly. That's why many have turned against the management.

I don't want us to spend insane amounts, and I'm proud of our financial record, but we don't even take the sensible deals and then complain that we can't get great players anymore because they cost too much. We could have a better squad without spending much more but we pass on great opportunities year after year.


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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby aterford » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:24 am

In an interview with Sport Bild, Uli went ahead and said we won't be signing Draxler.

Further, he went on to say "I don't believe any player in the world is worth €100m" #-o
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:54 am

aterford wrote:In an interview with Sport Bild, Uli went ahead and said we won't be signing Draxler.

Further, he went on to say "I don't believe any player in the world is worth €100m" #-o


And emphasised that we are rich :lol:
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby #12 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:57 am

Yeah and 15 years ago he said no one was worth 50...
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby MUTU » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:16 am

aterford wrote:In an interview with Sport Bild, Uli went ahead and said we won't be signing Draxler.

Further, he went on to say "I don't believe any player in the world is worth €100m" #-o

I wish I could talk directly to Uli and call his bullshit. If the Bayern board really and truly believe that no player is worth €100m, then they would've accepted Manchester United's bid for Thomas Mueller. Since they refused it means they value Mueller more than €100m, i.e. they preferred to retain Mueller rather than become €100m richer.

And, IIRC, Mueller's bid was above €100m in any case.

So this is a blatant lie and an excuse he brings to mask his being a miser.

So let me 'prove' how a player could be worth €100m...
BVB have a lot of cash in hand at the moment. Let's imagine that hypothetically they get Mbappe for €100m. He ends up fulfilling his promise and becomes a Ballon d'Or candidate upon which BVB accept a bid of €300m for him from, say, PSG. Therefore, in for example 2 years BVB would have made a €200m profit off of him.

Uli keeps looking at ROI from the aspect of how much value will he bring to the club if he joins and retires at the club (or leaves on a free transfer).
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby gumboduncan » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:20 am

I don't think it's bullshit from Uli. Thomas Müller is will never be sold by Bayern unless he asks for it himself (ala Schweinsteiger). So Uli doesn't value Müller more then 100 million, he doesn't have a price tag for Uli.

We have to realize that Bayern is a different club then likes of Man Utd, City, Chelsea and PSG. Bayern is controlled by former players and not Sheihks and billionaires from Russia or USA. Bayern will never spend the same money as those clubs. We spend a lot and that has brought us great success over the last 10 years or so.

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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby MUTU » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:36 am

gumboduncan wrote:I don't think it's bullshit from Uli. Thomas Müller is will never be sold by Bayern unless he asks for it himself (ala Schweinsteiger). So Uli doesn't value Müller more then 100 million, he doesn't have a price tag for Uli.

We have to realize that Bayern is a different club then likes of Man Utd, City, Chelsea and PSG. Bayern is controlled by former players and not Sheihks and billionaires from Russia or USA. Bayern will never spend the same money as those clubs. We spend a lot and that has brought us great success over the last 10 years or so.

I'm very proud to say that My team is not like those I mentioned above.
I understand what you are saying. I just think that at this point in time, since we can't fight them we need to join them. We need to start buying players and sell them for profit. Only then will we afford to buy top players which will now inevitably cost above 100m. Sticking to these principles will hold us back. It says a lot when our highest transfer fee is a fifth of the world record.
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby gumboduncan » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:43 am

But then again MUTU, we are clearly among the top 3-4 teams in Europe the last 7-8 seasons. So I guess our tactic in the transfer market is working. But I do understand your point and I'm sure we'll eclipse our transfer record next summer because we need a top winger and those aren't cheap. That's why I really want Draxler now because I think PSG are willing to sell him for around 40 million and a player of his status (age, experience and quality) is worth a lot more.
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:55 am

Excellent points MUTU


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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby #12 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:23 pm

gumboduncan wrote:But then again MUTU, we are clearly among the top 3-4 teams in Europe the last 7-8 seasons. So I guess our tactic in the transfer market is working. But I do understand your point and I'm sure we'll eclipse our transfer record next summer because we need a top winger and those aren't cheap. That's why I really want Draxler now because I think PSG are willing to sell him for around 40 million and a player of his status (age, experience and quality) is worth a lot more.


Yeah - and we made almost no use of it and won' be for the next 20...

Draxler is not a top winger and those 40m
are only in your head... Plus, we need right wingers - lefties...
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby gumboduncan » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:32 pm

I don't know what you expect #12. I guess you expect winning the Champions League every other year. That's unrealistic. Real was the first team to win the Champions League back to back. It shows you how tough winning it is. And by the way we were really unlucky not to eliminate then last season.

Three Champions League finals in the last 7 seasons don't count for much I guess. Semi-Finals appearances almost every year we didn't make the finals don't count for much either. Winning 5 Bundesliga titles in a row. Your expectations #12 are unrealistic IMO.

Regarding Draxler. That's your opinion. Fine, but I think as well as most football fans and experts that Draxler is a top winger. Bayern need a left winger since Coman usually plays on the right. James is not a left winger if you thought so.
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby Achilles » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:33 pm

It's about the policy, making profit from selling players isn't a priority,we're not even think about it I can name many players that left from Bayern and chose their next destination even if the club had better offers from other clubs. Moreover we have made quite a name for ourselves that Bayern's rejections are really poor players they take the downhill after we sold them.

In addition everybody in the market knows that we won't make their life miserable when they will ask for a player that we are willing to sell so when our time to knock their door comes they will ask for reasonable fees as well, it's a good tactic since we don't care about having incomes from smart sells rather than making smart signings.

Of course IMO we're not making extremely good deals lately but it would be crazy to ask for "a Hummels or a Vidal" signing for every season, I mean they had the whole package(WC quality,starters,experienced,reasonable fees) who knows maybe James will take the same road. Bayern have already spent more than €100m in transfers, they aimed mostly for the future, can't blame them for that tbh.

Draxler less €40m would be a nice transfer, it's a mistake to rely on Ribery completely. Same goes for the other flank and Robben but we might have some patches for that role(Coman,James?) one the left though the things are much worse, Draxler would give us that depth and maybe more.
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