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Jérôme Boateng

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Re: Jérôme Boateng

Postby bounce wit me » Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:21 pm

Who cares if he's German? It doesn't change the fact that there are several defenders better than him, and quite a few of them would actually be attainable. He plays in a system where there is minimal pressure on him due to the strength of the midfield and how dominant the team are in possession.

Yet he is culpable for several mistakes per season. He has improved but he and Dante are the weak links on the team.
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Re: Jérôme Boateng

Postby MUTU » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:08 pm

Zer0 Bayern wrote:Better defenders? He's german, plays for NT, and he has improved A LOT, and still young.

All true but we can still do better.
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Re: Jérôme Boateng

Postby envagyokazapad » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:21 pm

bounce wit me wrote:Who cares if he's German? It doesn't change the fact that there are several defenders better than him, and quite a few of them would actually be attainable. He plays in a system where there is minimal pressure on him due to the strength of the midfield and how dominant the team are in possession.

Yet he is culpable for several mistakes per season. He has improved but he and Dante are the weak links on the team.


I disagree...perhaps last year...but this year there's a lot of pressure on the defenders. What I see is we have 'no defensive midfield' but instead press high up on the pitch, so defenders also sort of act like defensive midfielders...they have to distribute a lot of balls as well from the back, which Boateng is actually very good at. Mistakes are also a lot more costly in this system...

Besides, we have had the best defense in Europe for two years, how exactly are they the weak links?

Anyone who would be an upgrade to Dante and Boateng would probably cost serious $$$ as well...it's just not worth it.
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Re: Jérôme Boateng

Postby envagyokazapad » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:22 pm

MUTU wrote:
Zer0 Bayern wrote:Better defenders? He's german, plays for NT, and he has improved A LOT, and still young.

All true but we can still do better.


It's not a realistic goal to have the best player in the world playing in every single position. And as long as you don't have that, you can always "do better".
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Re: Jérôme Boateng

Postby MUTU » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:22 pm

envagyokazapad wrote:
MUTU wrote:
Zer0 Bayern wrote:Better defenders? He's german, plays for NT, and he has improved A LOT, and still young.

All true but we can still do better.


It's not a realistic goal to have the best player in the world playing in every single position. And as long as you don't have that, you can always "do better".

Of course, but none of our 4 central defenders would make my top 5 CB list. And to be honest, if you interview non-FC Bayern and non-German NT fans, I doubt many will mention one of our defenders in their top 5 list*.

I think for every other position (esp. next season with Lewandowski) we can boast having a top 5 player in his position.

So yes, central defence is our weakest link. If we want to strengthen a part of the pitch it should be central defence in my opinion.

* I just tried to check public opinion on central defenders using FIFA 14 overall rating from the weekly updates:
Spoiler: show
Thiago Silva 88
Sergio Ramos, Pique, Vidic, Kompany 86
Hummels, Benatia, Chiellini 85
Dante, Mascherano, Barzagli 84
Boateng, Godin, Koscielny, Pepe, Terry, Puyol 83

So our best CD (Dante) shares 9th place with 2 other players and our second best CD (Boateng) shares 12th place with 5 other players.

We're not weaker in any other position.
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Re: Jérôme Boateng

Postby bounce wit me » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:27 pm

We haven't had the best defence in Europe. We've had the defence that has conceded the fewest goals. Are Liverpool supposed to have the best attack in Europe because they have scored the most goals in league football? No.

You look at the rest of the team, you see proven quality. Alaba isn't a great defender, but how many elite left backs are? For this scenario let's suggest Lahm is at right back, Schweinsteiger and Martìnez are in central midfield with Kroos.

Is Mandzukic the best centre forward in the world? No.
Is Kroos the best attacking midfielder in the world? No.
Is Martìnez the best central midfielder in the world? No.

But they're not weak links. Say whatever you want about Mandzukic, he is a phenomenal forward. Crucially he brings a completely different dimension to the attack. This is a guy who is currently the best CF in the Bundesliga, was incredible against Juventus in the CL last season, and scored the first goal in the Champions League final.

It doesn't matter if they aren't the best in their position, they don't have any major flaws for what their roles are supposed to be and that's why they have been great consistently.

The defence is an issue because it is always vulnerable. Always. In several matches the opposition get some free runs against FC Bayern but their profilgacy -- and Neuer's brilliance -- is what gives us such a low conceded record. Bayern have the highest possession, arguably the best pressing concept and many of Europe's finest footballers yet the defence always is a worry.

So far this season Boateng has had a few poor mistakes which have resulted in awful performances against Mainz (H), Hertha (H), City (H), Arsenal (A). That's not even counting his stupid red card against City (A), funnily enough due to Dante's error.

They are the obvious weak links on the team. It doesn't matter if Boateng is German or not, he could be a youth product for all I care. His level (and Dante) are both not on the same level as the rest of the team.
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Re: Jérôme Boateng

Postby Achilles » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:44 pm

I'm not the biggest fan of Jerome Boateng around here and (unfortunately) he doesn't proves me wrong.
In terms of athleticism he is a beast,decent technique,he improved his long balls a lot this year but the lack of concetration,the blunders and the weeks out of form are there... Pitty he made a huge huge start(September-Octomber)
Making criticism to a player doesn't mean that I want him out or I think he is crap or anything like it it's a "positive criticism" that's what fans do,I do like Boateng's style but he has a lot to improve,with that physique,atheticism and technique when he came at Bayern I was thinking that in 3-4 years he could be one of the best but he isn't...

@bouncewitme said many truths and put it quite well about the Boateng situation.
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Re: Jérôme Boateng

Postby envagyokazapad » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:01 pm

Meh, I was more bummed out by what you said about Dante (and the fact that after winning the treble last year, conceding the fewest goals in Europe, then winning the Buli again and still conceding the fewest goals in Europe you are still claiming our defenders are not good enough). Dante played an amazing season last year and was probably in the top3 CBs...

We are playing in a completely different system under Pep, and this is the first year in this system for both of our defenders (and midfielders!), so just give them a break will you? A lot of those free runs you are talking about are happening more because of the system we are playing in. I doubt these free runs will go away regardless of who our defenders are. You could probably blame Boateng for making too many mistakes, and I can't say I've been too happy with him this season either, but it seems clear to me that it's the lack of competition in defense that's getting to him. He clearly stepped up since Pep started replacing him with Martinez. Maybe we could get back to this in a year when the team is more accustomed to Pep's ideas.

Of course, but none of our 4 central defenders would make my top 5 CB list.


Maybe this argument would stand if things were black and white, but reality is just different. There's no guarantee that in the system we play in the likes of Kompany would work any better than Dante or Boateng. Besides it's not all just about individual skills.

* I just tried to check public opinion on central defenders using FIFA 14 overall rating from the weekly updates:


The fact that Pique and Vidic are rated higher than Dante and Boateng takes away some of this list's credibility. :D

What was the public's opinion when we signed Mario Mandzukic?
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Re: Jérôme Boateng

Postby envagyokazapad » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:07 pm

Forgot to respond to these

bounce wit me wrote:Alaba isn't a great defender


Mmm?? He's the best left back in the world, how exactly is he not a great defender? :S

That's not even counting his stupid red card against City (A)


Again heavily disagree. Toure was in front of goal and was more or less guaranteed to score from there when Boateng fouled him as the last man. There was not much else he could do...
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Re: Jérôme Boateng

Postby bounce wit me » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:24 pm

List of some of Dante's stupid mistakes over the past two seasons:

- Penalty vs Mainz (2012-13)
- Error vs Gladbach (2012-13)
- Penalty vs Dortmund (2012-13)
- Error vs Bremen (2012-13)
- Error vs BATE (2012-13)
- Penalty vs Gladbach (2013-14)
- Error vs Man City (2013-14)
- Error vs Stuttgart (2013-14)
- Penalty [not awarded by referee] vs Frankfurt (2013-14)

Does anyone want to add on to this list?

envagyokazapad wrote:Mmm?? He's the best left back in the world, how exactly is he not a great defender? :S
He's not a great defender. Someone like Lahm is a great defender. Alaba regularly performs poorly against top teams if he is not being supported by his winger. Dortmund, Arsenal (this season), Arsenal (last season), Chelsea. He is the best left back in the world -- not solely by his merit, but due to the very low pool of quality left backs -- but he needs to work on his defensive ability.

envagyokazapad wrote:Toure was in front of goal and was more or less guaranteed to score from there when Boateng fouled him as the last man. There was not much else he could do...
You are never guaranteed to score against Manuel Neuer. :mrgreen:
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Re: Jérôme Boateng

Postby MUTU » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:32 pm

We're getting really off-topic now. Anyway from our replies in the Man Utd questions asked to us by RedCafe it's pretty clear that a good number of us want a new central defender. Nothing to do with Boateng/Dante being sold though anyway.
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Re: Jérôme Boateng

Postby envagyokazapad » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:34 pm

bounce wit me wrote:List of some of Dante's stupid mistakes over the past two seasons:

- Penalty vs Mainz (2012-13)
- Error vs Gladbach (2012-13)
- Penalty vs Dortmund (2012-13)
- Error vs Bremen (2012-13)
- Error vs BATE (2012-13)
- Penalty vs Gladbach (2013-14)
- Error vs Man City (2013-14)
- Error vs Stuttgart (2013-14)
- Penalty [not awarded by referee] vs Frankfurt (2013-14)


That's a lot of mistakes for ~7000 minutes spent on the pitch :mrgreen:
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Re: Jérôme Boateng

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:45 am

bounce wit me wrote:Who cares if he's German?

This is an interesting debate, because there are advantages to having German players. But it's also a fact that there are better defenders than Boateng out there.

Vote for the first option here if you would like to see the topic discussed next month. :wink: Although the currently winning option also deals with Boateng.
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Re: Jérôme Boateng

Postby Firefox1234 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:05 pm

Liverpool are interested in acquiring Boateng [source]
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Re: Jérôme Boateng

Postby MUTU » Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:14 pm

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