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Willy Sagnol

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Do you think Willy should be upset?

Yes!
4
29%
No!
10
71%
 
Total votes : 14

Re: Willy Sagnol

Postby aterford » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:57 pm

huknife wrote:Maybe he sees his old position bring occupied by Shittyfinha and kicks that clown to the kerb.



Wow that's really clever, did you come up with that name for him all by yourself?
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Re: Willy Sagnol

Postby Effenberg777 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:08 pm

We are preparing Mbappe arriving with Sagnol named coach.
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Re: Willy Sagnol

Postby JANCKER » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:56 am

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Re: Willy Sagnol

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:34 am

JANCKER wrote:

I think it was a good decision by the board to appoint him.
He will help Carlo a lot since the latter has problems with the language plus he can improve Coman

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Re: Willy Sagnol

Postby MUTU » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:33 am

Welcome our new head-coach for one match :)
30GB free cloud storage. Click here for the referral.
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Re: Willy Sagnol

Postby Jorge » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:53 pm

Is it only me or some of you also see it as he took a shot at Bayern's board when he said:
"We are no longer the strongest team in Germany" [source]
?

Bayern still operates with a budget much larger than our rivals, with an average salary of $7.7 M per player it more than doubles our next opponent. So, is he taking a shot at how the club has been managed in recent years? The transfer decisions that were made, what composition and balance our team has... Some of us mention this here all the time. We have the impression that we do not have a solid well structured project anymore so we lose functionality as a team while clubs operating with a smaller budget are paying more attention to details and sustainable growth and overtime those projects are paying off while our is becoming stagnant.

I keep repeating when some mention that Bayern should go on a spending spree that instead we need to look at what we have because our players and team as a whole are not performing based on the cumulative valuation of our roster. Our 60M players are performing at the level of a 30M player so why do you want to bring a 100M player if you have not fixed the root cause of the problem?

I have been expressing my frustration that our efforts to become a "global brand" could turn us into the next Manchester City or PSG while it was our identity as a club what gave us success in the past while the money splash was only a supplemental factor. I insist that our identity has taken a toll in recent years and this what Sagnol is refering to.
Last edited by Jorge on Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Willy Sagnol

Postby #12 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:18 pm

You don't win stuff by identity... I agree on the mismanagement, obviously, and we need players that blend in better... But we were successful because we were incredibly lucky in many fields (Lahm&Schweinsteiger at the height if their potential, Alaba turning out to be a good LB, Müller coming out of nowhere, above all: getting the best wingers in this game for cheap...)
It is quality... Team chemistry obviously as well... But identity? Is worth nothing if the rest is not a perfect match...

Also, I feel obliged to point out, that he actually said "without concentration, we're not the best team in Germany anymore"...
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Re: Willy Sagnol

Postby Jorge » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:38 pm

#12 wrote:You don't win stuff by identity...
It is quality... Team chemistry obviously as well... But identity? Is worth nothing if the rest is not a perfect match...


You actually win with identity, you just said it: "It is quality... Team chemistry obviously as well". Team quality and chemistry are the end product of identity, this more than individual quality.

Maybe we need to discuss what identity means before we have this other conversation, but having a foundation of home grown players mixed with local and national representatives and only after this foundation the supplement of players coming from elsewhere who will be forced to integrate, this more than the addition of players coming without a history in the club to form the core. This is identity, team quality and chemistry all packed together, and this is great part of our Class of 2012-13, not luck.
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Re: Willy Sagnol

Postby #12 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:51 pm

Jorge wrote:
#12 wrote:You don't win stuff by identity...
It is quality... Team chemistry obviously as well... But identity? Is worth nothing if the rest is not a perfect match...


You actually win with identity, you just said it: "It is quality... Team chemistry obviously as well". Team quality and chemistry are the end product of identity, this more than individual quality.

Maybe we need to discuss what identity means before we have this other conversation, but having a foundation of home grown players mixed with local and national representatives and only after this foundation the supplement of players coming from elsewhere who will be forced to integrate, this more than the addition of players coming without a history in the club to form the core. This is identity, team quality and chemistry all packed together, and this is great part of our Class of 2012-13, not luck.


But the individual stepping stones were luck...
Of course you can make up for a deficit in individual quality by outstanding team chemistry/performance... It's not that much though and also rather uncommon...
I mean we can make up for a Dante in the CB , but not for two 34 year olds, an out of form Müller, and a nonexistent midfield (not even talking Ulreich here...)

Robben and Ribéry maybe more or less (and after YEARS) identified with our club... But their quality was there first and we needed it... We won't be half as successful with Gnabry and Brandt...
And we also had identity 2002-2009 when we were more or less nothing but shit...
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Re: Willy Sagnol

Postby Jorge » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:01 pm

#12 wrote:
But the individual stepping stones were luck...
Of course you can make up for a deficit in individual quality by outstanding team chemistry/performance... It's not that much though and also rather uncommon...
I mean we can make up for a Dante in the CB , but not for two 34 year olds, an out of form Müller, and a nonexistent midfield (not even talking Ulreich here...)

Robben and Ribéry maybe more or less (and after YEARS) identified with our club... But their quality was there first and we needed it... We won't be half as successful with Gnabry and Brandt...
And we also had identity 2002-2009 when we were more or less nothing but shit...


Identity alone will not make the cut, we agree on that, otherwise Athletic Bilbao would be invincible. All I am saying is that a departure from our roots will not necessarily mean success on the field even when you sell more jerseys in China. Right now Bayern looks more like the Chelsea or Real Madrid of 10 years ago than the Bayern of 10 years ago, with or without success.

Coincidentally, some of the teams that are giving us a hard time in the Bundesliga field more homegrown players than we do.
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Re: Willy Sagnol

Postby Achilles » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:17 pm

Jorge wrote:I have been expressing my frustration that our efforts to become a "global brand" could turn us into the next Manchester City or PSG while it was our identity as a club what gave us success in the past while the money splash was only a supplemental factor. I insist that our identity has taken a toll in recent years and this what Sagnol is refering to.

More or less we have been taking wrong decisions since 2013 glory, we ended brutally our football style that for 2 consecutive years we aimed for treble, we managed one treble but still I think we're the only club that went two consecutive years for two trebles in a row. Our 2012 Bayern was very good and fun to watch but with a bad ending nevertheless I just want to say that we never think "what the others say" after 2013 we suddenly enter the "star system" the social media craziness even the market craziness(with Javi at that time) we signed the most lucrative coach in the world and we started making some flashy moves in and off the field(useless tours,marketing) implementing more technicality in our games than ever which made us soft in a way.

We lost our target somehow and our style, we need to re-create our DNA again, the identity you mentioned is not visible as it was in the past maybe that's my personal opinion but we are not acting like we used to anymore. Can't blame entirely the coaches or the quality of the squad, the board has their fingers all over it since they are in charge and the people who lead the family. Even know in a very crucial moment they're playing GoT about our next coach, Uli(Nagels) vs Kalle(Tuchel) , the first one, a more traditional person wants obviously Nagelsmann, the other boss a way more modern footballmarketing guy obviously wants the unconventional -German- Guardiola since he couldn't extend the real one. Seems like a lost cause if we continue in all these internal battles, even the fans across the world after the treble got divided like never before.
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Re: Willy Sagnol

Postby Jorge » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:30 pm

Achilles wrote:even the fans across the world after the treble got divided like never before.


This forum is a good example. I have been posting here for like 10 years now and it is more divided and tribal than ever before.

You are bringing up good point, I even add the idea of Bayern offering the "German Messi" as a welcome gift for the new super coach. That was a rush decision, part of the selling global brand as well, that created a rippling effect that we are somehow still dealing with.
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Re: Willy Sagnol

Postby #12 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:45 pm

Not a fan of his, but: who's to say Tuchel might not fit our DNA?
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Re: Willy Sagnol

Postby Achilles » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:58 pm

I'm perfectly fine with Tuchel under these circumstances, I would discuss alternative options if it was summer time but right now? Bring him on, he can stretch our players and he is innovative upfront while our other current options are mostly garbage compared to him.
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Re: Willy Sagnol

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:42 am

Jorge wrote:
Achilles wrote:even the fans across the world after the treble got divided like never before.


This forum is a good example. I have been posting here for like 10 years now and it is more divided and tribal than ever before.

You are bringing up good point, I even add the idea of Bayern offering the "German Messi" as a welcome gift for the new super coach. That was a rush decision, part of the selling global brand as well, that created a rippling effect that we are somehow still dealing with.

Is it still? We were very divided in the Pep years, but after Carlo took over we became much more united in our opinion of the direction the club should take. This isn't reflected elsewhere, where I've seen several Bayern fans support Carlo.

It's strange to me that we were so divided with Pep because I don't think we've ever seen that before or after. I wonder how much of it has to do with the 2013 success, which raised our expectations so high.
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