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Thomas Müller

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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:29 pm

huknife wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote: He will lose his place.


Haha. No.

Hey, taking out that "probably" changes my meaning. :mrgreen:

Everyone knows I don't want that to happen. Muller and Alaba are my favourite players.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby huknife » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:45 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
huknife wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote: He will lose his place.


Haha. No.

Hey, taking out that "probably" changes my meaning. :mrgreen:

Everyone knows I don't want that to happen. Muller and Alaba are my favourite players.


I'm devious like that :D

It turns out he ends up on he bench as soon as i said it was not going to happen. It surprised me though, Pep seem to have changed tactics to the 2 DM formation and moved Kroos to the head of the Triangle.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Firefox1234 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:35 pm

huknife wrote:It turns out he ends up on he bench as soon as i said it was not going to happen. It surprised me though, Pep seem to have changed tactics to the 2 DM formation and moved Kroos to the head of the Triangle.

Well injuries to Thiago and Gotze who are offensive midfielder doesnt make playing a offensive formation plausible so he had to do with Lahm and Schweinstiger. Also Muller has been poor when played as a #8 next to Kroos so changes had to be made....
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Badger » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:26 am

I’ve been thinking about Mueller a lot recently. I find his inconsistency a bit frustrating, but I still think that he is a key player at Bayern, and I hope that his consistency improves soon. In the past, I’ve heard him described as a very versatile player, who can play as striker, false nine, central attacking midfielder, right winger or left winger. That is basically true, but I have a growing impression that he can’t play them all equally well.

If you agree with that basic premise, how would you rank his best positions across those five – (1)striker (2)false nine (3)central attacking midfielder (4)right winger and (5)left winger? My ranking, totally ignoring all other players who play in those positions, would be right winger, left winger, false nine, striker, central attacking midfielder. My reasoning is: Bayern’s wing play hasn’t changed much under Pep, and Mueller always performed well on the right wing, and on the left wing while Ribery was injured, although he does it in his own style rather than in a more traditional winger’s style; he isn’t a complete striker with enough striker’s instinct, but is better in the compromised role of false nine; his most anonymous games this season have been as central attacking midfielder, and he hasn’t yet presented a convincing case that, unlike during Jupp’s reign, he can play that position in Pep’s system.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby unknownsoul » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:45 am

1. Right Wing
2. CAM - (Only if lone CAM (at 10), he hasnt done well at the two -8's positions).
3. False 9. His movement was two good in the Man City game and he had stayed high up the pitch on most occassions, unlike against Lenokusen where he was roaming a lot more, there was a lack of a clear target for crosses in the box. for example, once he crossed the ball over to Ribs from the RW and then had to move himself to the box to recieve the cross.
4. Striker (He's good enough against the lesser teams to play up top)
5. LW - havent seen him play there much.

btw,
Muller wrote:The Germany international believes it would be unfair to criticise him for his side's draw at the weekend after he missed a gilt-edged chance

Bayern Munich attacker Thomas Muller has refused to take the blame for his side's 1-1 Bundesliga draw against Bayer Leverkusen on Saturday.

The Germany international wasted a big chance to give his side the lead in the 35th minute after a good cross from David Alaba, with Muller putting his close-range header over the bar.

Nevertheless, the 24-year-old feels it would be unfair to blame his miss for Bayern's draw.

"I do not feel responsible for the draw. That's simply not the way things go," Muller told TZ.

"The header was not as easy as it seemed to be. I ended up under the ball, which caused it to go over the bar.

"I feel really bad about it, both for the team and for myself. This really hurts. Things like this happen in football. It's hard to really explain it. It should obviously have gone in."

Bayern went top of the table following the draw against Leverkusen and Borussia Dortmund's loss against Monchengladbach at the weekend.

source:
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby huknife » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:00 am

Badger wrote:I’ve been thinking about Mueller a lot recently. I find his inconsistency a bit frustrating, but I still think that he is a key player at Bayern, and I hope that his consistency improves soon. In the past, I’ve heard him described as a very versatile player, who can play as striker, false nine, central attacking midfielder, right winger or left winger. That is basically true, but I have a growing impression that he can’t play them all equally well.

If you agree with that basic premise, how would you rank his best positions across those five – (1)striker (2)false nine (3)central attacking midfielder (4)right winger and (5)left winger? My ranking, totally ignoring all other players who play in those positions, would be right winger, left winger, false nine, striker, central attacking midfielder. My reasoning is: Bayern’s wing play hasn’t changed much under Pep, and Mueller always performed well on the right wing, and on the left wing while Ribery was injured, although he does it in his own style rather than in a more traditional winger’s style; he isn’t a complete striker with enough striker’s instinct, but is better in the compromised role of false nine; his most anonymous games this season have been as central attacking midfielder, and he hasn’t yet presented a convincing case that, unlike during Jupp’s reign, he can play that position in Pep’s system.


Central Attacking Midfielder, a move advanced role than Kroos plays, with Robben on the right and Schweinsteiger behind him. In my opinion, these 3 players are the most intelligent movers on our team and can wreak havoc faced up with any defence. Mind you, this set up also requires Javi Martinez so that Schweinsteiger is allowed the freedom to move forward.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Badger » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:02 am

huknife wrote:
Badger wrote:I’ve been thinking about Mueller a lot recently. I find his inconsistency a bit frustrating, but I still think that he is a key player at Bayern, and I hope that his consistency improves soon. In the past, I’ve heard him described as a very versatile player, who can play as striker, false nine, central attacking midfielder, right winger or left winger. That is basically true, but I have a growing impression that he can’t play them all equally well.

If you agree with that basic premise, how would you rank his best positions across those five – (1)striker (2)false nine (3)central attacking midfielder (4)right winger and (5)left winger? My ranking, totally ignoring all other players who play in those positions, would be right winger, left winger, false nine, striker, central attacking midfielder. My reasoning is: Bayern’s wing play hasn’t changed much under Pep, and Mueller always performed well on the right wing, and on the left wing while Ribery was injured, although he does it in his own style rather than in a more traditional winger’s style; he isn’t a complete striker with enough striker’s instinct, but is better in the compromised role of false nine; his most anonymous games this season have been as central attacking midfielder, and he hasn’t yet presented a convincing case that, unlike during Jupp’s reign, he can play that position in Pep’s system.


Central Attacking Midfielder, a move advanced role than Kroos plays, with Robben on the right and Schweinsteiger behind him. In my opinion, these 3 players are the most intelligent movers on our team and can wreak havoc faced up with any defence. Mind you, this set up also requires Javi Martinez so that Schweinsteiger is allowed the freedom to move forward.


Thanks for the response. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, as I could have missed some important details myself, but I'd really like to ask what you've seen this season that persuades you that Mueller is best as a central attacking midfielder, especially since your lineup seems to be benching Kroos. unknownsoul's clause about it working if he were a lone central attacking midfielder, has some historical support from last season, but in Guardiola's double central attacking midfielder system this season, Mueller has seemed a shadow of the player he is elsewhere on the pitch.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby MoFattal » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:22 am

Guardiola's 4-1-4-1 somehow confines players to certain positions on the field, and reduces the roaming space specifically in CM/CAM (whatever you prefer to call it). For this, I think Muller will be the least effective in the CM/CAM position. Also, his constant movements means that he doesn't provide an effective and constantly-present attacking outlet inside the box on which to direct passes/crosses to, so the ST position isn't his "thing" as well. That leaves that wing positions and the false 9. I think he plays the best in the former roles, specifically the RW, as is pretty obvious by his performances there this year, last year, and with the NT. He has the qualities to play as a false 9 as proven against City, but I think we need to see him a bit more there to be able to make a logical assessment of its effectiveness.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby huknife » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:45 am

Badger wrote:
huknife wrote:
Badger wrote:I’ve been thinking about Mueller a lot recently. I find his inconsistency a bit frustrating, but I still think that he is a key player at Bayern, and I hope that his consistency improves soon. In the past, I’ve heard him described as a very versatile player, who can play as striker, false nine, central attacking midfielder, right winger or left winger. That is basically true, but I have a growing impression that he can’t play them all equally well.

If you agree with that basic premise, how would you rank his best positions across those five – (1)striker (2)false nine (3)central attacking midfielder (4)right winger and (5)left winger? My ranking, totally ignoring all other players who play in those positions, would be right winger, left winger, false nine, striker, central attacking midfielder. My reasoning is: Bayern’s wing play hasn’t changed much under Pep, and Mueller always performed well on the right wing, and on the left wing while Ribery was injured, although he does it in his own style rather than in a more traditional winger’s style; he isn’t a complete striker with enough striker’s instinct, but is better in the compromised role of false nine; his most anonymous games this season have been as central attacking midfielder, and he hasn’t yet presented a convincing case that, unlike during Jupp’s reign, he can play that position in Pep’s system.


Central Attacking Midfielder, a move advanced role than Kroos plays, with Robben on the right and Schweinsteiger behind him. In my opinion, these 3 players are the most intelligent movers on our team and can wreak havoc faced up with any defence. Mind you, this set up also requires Javi Martinez so that Schweinsteiger is allowed the freedom to move forward.


Thanks for the response. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, as I could have missed some important details myself, but I'd really like to ask what you've seen this season that persuades you that Mueller is best as a central attacking midfielder, especially since your lineup seems to be benching Kroos. unknownsoul's clause about it working if he were a lone central attacking midfielder, has some historical support from last season, but in Guardiola's double central attacking midfielder system this season, Mueller has seemed a shadow of the player he is elsewhere on the pitch.


Yes it is a system which benches Kroos. You seem suprised, id bench Kroos just as fast as anyone would bench Robben :) And no, this formation is not particularly based on this season, it is based on everything i know of all the players here mentioned. By all means, i do not agree with Guardiola's double central whatever system he does play, it needs to be a double DM pairing, not AM pairing.

Regarding Muller seeming like a shadow if the player he normally is, it , most of the time fires him up to bench him for 2 to 3 games. Actually playing a static line up for every match is such a waste of the contenders for the starting line up [Shaq, Gotz], but bringing players like Muller and Robben into the fieriest of matches has a great benefit to the team.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Firefox1234 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:53 pm

huknife wrote:Yes it is a system which benches Kroos. You seem suprised, id bench Kroos just as fast as anyone would bench Robben :) And no, this formation is not particularly based on this season, it is based on everything i know of all the players here mentioned. By all means, i do not agree with Guardiola's double central whatever system he does play, it needs to be a double DM pairing, not AM pairing.

Regarding Muller seeming like a shadow if the player he normally is, it , most of the time fires him up to bench him for 2 to 3 games. Actually playing a static line up for every match is such a waste of the contenders for the starting line up [Shaq, Gotz], but bringing players like Muller and Robben into the fieriest of matches has a great benefit to the team.

Their really isnt a right answer for this type of problem, Jupp was more of a defensive minded coach while Pep heavily emphasizes on attacking football. So your views on who should play and who shouldnt isnt as justified as right as anyone else because if played right both methods can be just as successful....
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Chalant » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:27 pm

There's Gotze waiting un the wings if they slip.. I keep forgetting he is our player for some reason.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby lau03143 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:59 pm

Chalant wrote:There's Gotze waiting un the wings if they slip.. I keep forgetting he is our player for some reason.


I don't forget bit I am a bit frustrated about his lack of game time.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:21 pm

I think it is only natural that he can no longer play all the positions equally well. For years now he's played mostly as a RW or CAM. I'm not surprised he hasn't been very impressive as a false 9.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Bazi » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:40 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:I think it is only natural that he can no longer play all the positions equally well. For years now he's played mostly as a RW or CAM. I'm not surprised he hasn't been very impressive as a false 9.


Well imo he wasn't a false nine against Man'City but clearly a CF (look at the 2-0 or when he hit the post to make it 4-0, typical Pippo Inzaghi CF behavior). He's more a mobile forward and I think that's pretty close to what he was under Jupp Heynckes towards the end of last season.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby kod2600 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:59 am

If he's able to constantly perform the way he did against City as a false nine, then Mandzukic starting spot is in danger. Unless we get a ...Arjen injury...Muller will be a Right Winger again, a position he's good at btw.
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