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Thomas Müller

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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby #12 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:39 pm

The big mistake is: we were at the top... To stay there, we need 1-2 wc signings every year... The last real wc signing we made was Lewandowski...
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby prasun77 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:05 pm

nope..hummels was the last wc signing..

Aterford..
If we spend 75 million on 1 player and go about rest of the business as usual then it would amount to say 125-130 million ,we would be able to do that type of business in a single transfer window only once in 10 years..because we have no one to bail us out in case the debt trap starts and it will if we spend 125 mllion for even lets say 3 years consecutively. In case the signings turn out good and we make progress then fine in case they turn out to be a tolisso then we are doomed.
Because lets say our combined profit for 3 years is 120 million and the debt would be 450 million..that's huge.

The problem is dead serious..
We don't have the money..
We are run by 2 people who are out of sync with each other and also outdated..
Our players are out of form and there is no leadership in the dressing room either with alonso and lahm retired and neuer injured..
Its better to write off THIS season AT LEAST..
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Jorge » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:54 pm

We will never have the income of the EPL clubs, the TV revenue gap gets bigger and bigger, the only formula will be if the BL rules changed to sell our soul to an oil sultan, at that point why should we still support Bayern? What would be the difference between Bayern and PSG?
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby endrity » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:18 pm

We have the fourth largest revenues in the world, all of this with zero debt to add - debt which can and has been properly managed by a lot of other clubs and businesses and is not some type of insurmountable evil.

We can easily afford to spend in 60-70m level for players, and probably even more. We simply don't want to because than that raises the expectations for all other purchases. Mourinho actually revealed the whole idea when he said that buying Neymar for 220 was even understandable and worth it, it's when the average player starts costing 100 that it becomes a problem.

Unfortunately for Bayern, we're already there as we spent 40m on Tolisso who is not a bad player, but will probably be somewhat ordinary in his contributions. Selling clubs are already increasing the asking price for us, and at that point you might as well pay a bit more and get true quality.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby #12 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:19 pm

Jorge wrote:We will never have the income of the EPL clubs, the TV revenue gap gets bigger and bigger, the only formula will be if the BL rules changed to sell our soul to an oil sultan, at that point why should we still support Bayern? What would be the difference between Bayern and PSG?


Better city, better fans, better stadium, no foul stench in the air...
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby MUTU » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:35 pm

... Less terrorism
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Jorge » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:46 pm

#12 wrote:
Better city, better fans, better stadium, no foul stench in the air...


Excuse me! Is Manchester a better city than Munich? Are PSG fans better than our forum members? :oops: Better stadium, huh? as for the air quality we can discuss that in the Lounge Section.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby prasun77 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:00 pm

Jorge wrote:
#12 wrote:
Better city, better fans, better stadium, no foul stench in the air...


Excuse me! Is Manchester a better city than Munich? Are PSG fans better than our forum members? :oops: Better stadium, huh? as for the air quality we can discuss that in the Lounge Section.


He was advocating for munich.. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby aterford » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:03 pm

prasun77 wrote:nope..hummels was the last wc signing..

Aterford..
If we spend 75 million on 1 player and go about rest of the business as usual then it would amount to say 125-130 million ,we would be able to do that type of business in a single transfer window only once in 10 years..because we have no one to bail us out in case the debt trap starts and it will if we spend 125 mllion for even lets say 3 years consecutively. In case the signings turn out good and we make progress then fine in case they turn out to be a tolisso then we are doomed.
Because lets say our combined profit for 3 years is 120 million and the debt would be 450 million..that's huge.

The problem is dead serious..
We don't have the money..
We are run by 2 people who are out of sync with each other and also outdated..
Our players are out of form and there is no leadership in the dressing room either with alonso and lahm retired and neuer injured..
Its better to write off THIS season AT LEAST..


Okay my friend, I apologize for any sharp words as I feel for the most part we're actually on the same page. I am not advocating for spending 100m+ every window nor even consecutive windows unless absolutely necessary. But I also feel that we can't simply sit on a €42m record signing and expect to compete. And waiting on the academy to produce is a risk at best....It is okay to take on some debt every now and again. Spending say 75m only hits the books for €15m over a 5 year contract. That's perfectly sustainable and perhaps even more. As it stands we've spent €100m+ this summer, €70m last summer, €90m the one before that...so in that regard it's not necessarily a question of funds but rather quality vs quantity. If we can afford to spend €100m+ on 5 players this summer then similarly we can afford to spend €70m on one player and €30m on 2-3 more, provided they're the right players.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Jorge » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:08 am

Don't forget that a $100 M players carries a cumulative salary of about $100 M in a 5 year contract while a $40 M player will hit your books for only about $40 M.

I do not oppose splashing some money for the right players but it must fit a plan, there must a project in place to integrate that player to the club's structure. We have good examples of buying the right player recently (Kimmich) and quite a few examples of bringing in players that did not fit or we did not need (no need to mention names).

When you look at clubs like Manchester City that just spent $100M in two fullbacks trying to accomplish what Leicester did with two fullbacks worth $10M combined, you have to start thinking that it is spending wisely, not spending big.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby aterford » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:16 am

Jorge wrote:Don't forget that a $100 M players carries a cumulative salary of about $100 M in a 5 year contract while a $40 M player will hit your books for only about $40 M.

I do not oppose splashing some money for the right players but it must fit a plan, there must a project in place to integrate that player to the club's structure. We have good examples of buying the right player recently (Kimmich) and quite a few examples of bringing in players that did not fit or we did not need (no need to mention names).

When you look at clubs like Manchester City that just spent $100M in two fullbacks trying to accomplish what Leicester did with two fullbacks worth $10M combined, you have to start thinking that it is spending wisely, not spending big.


Of course there is a balance to be had. But we should also consider that over the past ~5 years or so - nearly every club who's performing better than us in UCL also happens to be spending more than us as well. When we won in 2013? Biggest spenders in the field.

But, I would agree that in general it's the lack of a clear picture/squad planning that's hurting us most right now. without this sort of plan we're just throwing it at the wall and hoping it sticks.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:46 am

#12 wrote:
Jorge wrote:We will never have the income of the EPL clubs, the TV revenue gap gets bigger and bigger, the only formula will be if the BL rules changed to sell our soul to an oil sultan, at that point why should we still support Bayern? What would be the difference between Bayern and PSG?


Better city, better fans, better stadium, no foul stench in the air...

Better City is highly debatable, considering it's Paris we're talking about.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby endrity » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:01 pm

I am too lazy to pull the data from another post I made at the time of the Neymar purchase, but the main point was that if you saw the growth of revenues for top clubs, you realized that player prices had in fact grown by far less. Clubs were spending 30-40m or more back in the early 2000s, and in the meantime revenues had grown 5-6 fold. That Zidane's and then Ronaldo's record stood until 2016 was quite remarkable. By that metric it was more than normal to expect to buy top quality for ~150m.

So this money pinching by Bayern is really mind blowing ultimately. You can't beat the market forever.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Pelin » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:28 pm

l don't think Bayern's problem is money. since you seem to forget this guys has spent around 150-200 m euros on non transfer related matters in the last 2 years.

English clubs has spent that amounts of money. just because they didn't want to miss a opportunity to build a good generation while they have big name coaches and went into debt. for instance, United's debt is over 500 m euros now.

English TV money is a big problem for any team in the world. The only way to minimize the gap with EPL clubs on TV deal is overseas deal's growth. since only teams who plays european football gets share unlike EPL whose all teams gets a share. with agressive marketing and development of pay tv sector, especially with new sky CL deal, l'm not pessimistic on TV money.

We have many ways to increase revenue. Lately Uli said that they don't want to sell some shares though some company wants to invest billion euros on Bayern, since they didn't need it. so money is the last problem we have. Btw, having another 1-2 big partnership has nothing to do with oil money.

we can be againist overpaying. l don't have any problem with it as long as we overpay when the right time comes for a worthy player. However, we are so romantic for a football club.

secondly, we must define our real problems.

Lack of world class players in some specific position on the market.
Lack of quickness and smartness during mercato(last summer)
Hesitation over overpaying.
lacking the balance between loyalty and charity club.
hesitations over decision making. also slow planning. slow decision making.
a coach who lacked the ideas on how to attack, despite not adding much, overplaying some players, didn't get the best out of his team.


with the increased financial powers of other teams, now market with more divisions. Thereby, increasing players pool with scouting and youth investment became a key factor, as well as developing talents.

Bayern signs talents for back up roles to develop, which is a precation for overpaying and minimizing generation breaks. However, we must upgrade Bayern model.

The balance between world class players and world class talents is the problem of this model and we must upgrade it by signing a top player every 3-4 years, even 4-5 years in order to overcome problems. otherwise we will have problem for attacking players in this model if we go on like this. nevertheless we have another problem, which is the balance between loyalty and charity club.
We made a big mistake by renewing with Ribery just after a serie of good games vs small teams at the start of Bundesliga last season. We don't have luxury to make same kind of mistakes anymore.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby #12 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:44 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
#12 wrote:
Jorge wrote:We will never have the income of the EPL clubs, the TV revenue gap gets bigger and bigger, the only formula will be if the BL rules changed to sell our soul to an oil sultan, at that point why should we still support Bayern? What would be the difference between Bayern and PSG?


Better city, better fans, better stadium, no foul stench in the air...

Better City is highly debatable, considering it's Paris we're talking about.


So?

@Pelin: 200m? On what? Seems you added a 0 too much...
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