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Thomas Müller

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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby #12 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:44 am

Gymnastics?
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:44 am

#12 wrote:Gymnastics?

No... try again
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby MUTU » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:50 am

ramsej84 wrote:
#12 wrote:Gymnastics?

No... try again
ramsej84... Behave ;)
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby #12 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:59 pm

My guess is that you were poking at something Jewish... Wrong though... Again, it's gymnastics
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby prasun77 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:36 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
prasun77 wrote:If we get a good scouting department we WILL become the next ajax.. :lol: :lol:
Who told u we got the money? You went and met dresdeen at the hospital?

Seriously? We have a board that reminds us every single winter (and they will again in just a few weeks time) that we have broken our record for most consecutive profitable years. The truth is they care more about that than success.

Don't get me wrong, being financially healthy is important, but it's useless if you don't invest the money. We don't need to make a profit every year, we just need to make sure we're not in debt in the long run.


Hello!Our profit after tax in 2016 was any idea how much?


No not 600 million


No not 300 million


No not 150 million

No...not even 50 million..

It was a paltry 33 million euros..thats not even enough to buy you sule..

source [source]


Admit it..we are broke.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby #12 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:11 pm

New signings generate more revenue...

Also, those 33m are after the signings we made that summer as well... So after overpaying for Hummels and sinking money in Renato... Would've been enough to at least get one very good player...
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby aterford » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:16 pm

prasun77 wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:
prasun77 wrote:If we get a good scouting department we WILL become the next ajax.. :lol: :lol:
Who told u we got the money? You went and met dresdeen at the hospital?

Seriously? We have a board that reminds us every single winter (and they will again in just a few weeks time) that we have broken our record for most consecutive profitable years. The truth is they care more about that than success.

Don't get me wrong, being financially healthy is important, but it's useless if you don't invest the money. We don't need to make a profit every year, we just need to make sure we're not in debt in the long run.


Hello!Our profit after tax in 2016 was any idea how much?


No not 600 million

No not 300 million


No not 150 million

No...not even 50 million..

It was a paltry 33 million euros..thats not even enough to buy you sule..

source [source]


Admit it..we are broke.


Yeah, that's not really how it works. €33m profit is more than the VAST majority of clubs in Europe. Virtually no club is buying purely out of profit when you buy a player.
For example in the same year Barcelona reported record turnover of €679m (compared to our record turnover of €629m) with a profit of only €29m. They spent ~€122m the following window.
PSG barely stays above the red, with net profits ranging from €1m to €7m over the past 5 years - yet they have been able to spend practically a billion euros.

Couple that with the fact that players' transfer fees are amortized over the course of a contract. Let's assume we stay on course and make €30m profit for the next 5 years. With that in mind, we could spend nearly €150m on a single player and over the course of his contract still remain virtually debt-free simply due to transfer amortization.

And of course this doesn't even consider the impact such a signing would have in a positive financial sense. Let's take Alexis Sanchez, for example (not necessarily saying to get him, just easy example). Say we spend €75m and sign Sanchez in summer 2016. Now, just hypothetically - let's say he's the player we need to push us past Real Madrid. We beat Madrid in the QFs and go on to end up winning the UCL (dreaming, I know). By doing so, the combined winnings from the competition plus market share we'd earn due to winning the competition would in all likelihood pay for the entirety of his fee. The difference between UCL QFs and winning the UCL is nearly €40m nowadays and that's before divvying up the tv funds. And as we've seen with players like James - signing big-name players has an impact that goes even beyond a sporting sense. James hasn't done a ton yet on the pitch (not a knock) but he's been an absolute success from us in regards to marketing, social footprint, etc.

The point of this is all to say that it's terribly simplistic to simply say "we only have €33m profit, how are we supposed to afford anyone?" (an aside: €33m definitely could buy you Süle, seeing as we paid €20m....).

Clubs don't sign players purely out of profit.
The amount you spend on a player isn't simply applied only to the fiscal year in which you sign them - it's spread out over the term of the contract.
Signing top players allows for a greater possibility of adding money to your bottom line later.
Simply put, we absolutely 100% CAN afford to make such signings.

Please don't speak out of ignorance just to try and prove a point. It's not working.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby prasun77 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:27 pm

Please amortization ain't a real thing no club will accept 45 million to be paid for their player by the club with the payment spread over 5 years. You have to pay that 45 million up front in most cases or a large amount up front and rest spread out.
Amortization is just a concept.And if we amortize te transfer sum and then we are saying that we have 33 million profit then its definitely worse.
Example- 33 million profit after you consider 7 million (35/5 where 5 is contract length and 35 is the transfer fee) for hummels and 7 for renato using the same concept. then actually we got a loss of (33 -(35-7) -(35-7)=) 23 million. Coz you paid 35 million upfront for both players but are considering only 14 million paid for this fiscal.
So that makes it even worse. We also don't have a sheikh,oligarch or a tycoon to fund us.So yes we don't have the money. We can buy expensive players but not without going into debt. Also our revenue is much less than real madrid,barcelona and manchester united.

So please don't write about economic concepts without understanding them.It makes you look dumb.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby #12 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:33 pm

prasun77 wrote:Please amortization ain't a real thing no club will accept 45 million to be paid for their player by the club with the payment spread over 5 years. You have to pay that 45 million up front in most cases or a large amount up front and rest spread out.
Amortization is just a concept.And if we amortize te transfer sum and then we are saying that we have 33 million profit then its definitely worse.
Example- 33 million profit after you consider 7 million (35/5 where 5 is contract length and 35 is the transfer fee) for hummels and 7 for renato using the same concept. then actually we got a loss of (33 -(35-7) -(35-7)=) 23 million. Coz you paid 35 million upfront for both players but are considering only 14 million paid for this fiscal.
So that makes it even worse. We also don't have a sheikh,oligarch or a tycoon to fund us.So yes we don't have the money. We can buy expensive players but not without going into debt. Also our revenue is much less than real madrid,barcelona and manchester united.

So please don't write about economic concepts without understanding them.It makes you look dumb.


Erm... Profit is after tax declaration (which in Germany would also make those 33m about 60m before taxes...)
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby aterford » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:34 pm

prasun77 wrote:Please amortization ain't a real thing no club will accept 45 million to be paid for their player by the club with the payment spread over 5 years. You have to pay that 45 million up front in most cases or a large amount up front and rest spread out.
Amortization is just a concept.And if we amortize te transfer sum and then we are saying that we have 33 million profit then its definitely worse.
Example- 33 million profit after you consider 7 million (35/5 where 5 is contract length and 35 is the transfer fee) for hummels and 7 for renato using the same concept. then actually we got a loss of (33 -(35-7) -(35-7)=) 23 million. Coz you paid 35 million upfront for both players but are considering only 14 million paid for this fiscal.
So that makes it even worse. We also don't have a sheikh,oligarch or a tycoon to fund us.So yes we don't have the money. We can buy expensive players but not without going into debt. Also our revenue is much less than real madrid,barcelona and manchester united.

So please don't write about economic concepts without understanding them.It makes you look dumb.


Yeah, you're talking out of your hindquarters now.

I'm aware it's paid up front but it doesn't all hit the books up front. The profit you're referring to has already included the debts for Hummels and Sanches - amortization included. Check your own source you previously linked - our total profit was about €54m.
Our revenue is less than Madrid, Barca, United, sure, but we still turn over more profit than them. Our income to debt ratio is MUCH better. By your own standard, if we're making more profits, shouldn't we be able to buy more player? Hmmm...And yet they're still able to find a sustainable way to purchase top players without the funding of a "sheikh, oligarch, or tycoon".
*gasp!!!* is it possible they have operational debts as it relates to the purchasing of players?!?? Impossible!!!

Again: we have the money. EVERYONE has a level of operating debt in regards to transfers. Find me a club who's challenging for titles in three competitions who signs players purely out of profit.
Such a club doesn't exist.

A swing and a miss yet again.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby prasun77 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:51 pm

Nope. You are failing to get the point or rather ignoring it just to prove we are having the money.
Madrid and co make less profit than us granted but they have other sources for getting the funds to sign players OR they are going into debt.
We can't/shouldn't go into debt neither are we receiving money from somewhere else. Operational debts are not fine. In our case they are not sustainable as well.
We have to go into huge debt to buy somenone like mbappe whereas sheikh simply funds it out of his own money for psg. Getting the point?
We DONT/WONT have the money and its better that way rather than go in debt and go bankrupt a la atletico/bvb et al.

Open your eyes and accept our limitations.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby prasun77 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:54 pm

BTW this is thomas muller's FUT. Notice something strange? (no..not Pele on the left..the other thing..no..not that he is rated 99..look harder)
Spoiler: show
Yes Carlo Ancelotti it is!

Can't see tweet? Click here!
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby aterford » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:57 pm

prasun77 wrote:Nope. You are failing to get the point or rather ignoring it just to prove we are having the money.
Madrid and co make less profit than us granted but they have other sources for getting the funds to sign players OR they are going into debt.
We can't/shouldn't go into debt neither are we receiving money from somewhere else. Operational debts are not fine. In our case they are not sustainable as well.
We have to go into huge debt to buy somenone like mbappe whereas sheikh simply funds it out of his own money for psg. Getting the point?
We DONT/WONT have the money and its better that way rather than go in debt and go bankrupt a la atletico/bvb et al.

Open your eyes and accept our limitations.


Show me why we "can't/shouldn't go into debt" and why "operational debts are not fine" and "not sustainable".
You keep throwing out principles but no real-world application. Prove to me why it's not sustainable to go into short-term debt to achieve long-term goals. Since you seem to fancy yourself to know the numbers, let's see the proof! Until then it's just vague whispers of "principles" and "you're just gonna have to take my word for it, we can't afford this stuff".
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby prasun77 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:07 pm

Ok dude..guarantee that these short term debt will remain shrt term and won't keep on accumulating.Have you ever gambled?

I will make it even simpler for you and if you don't understand even this then I am done with you..
Sppose we but alexis and accumulate a "short term debt" of say 40 million..we get kicked out of group stages in the ucl by psg,Roma and at this rate even celtic..
What do we do..to recover the debt buy suppose dele alli accumulating another short term debt of say 40 million..this time we make it to Ro16 and then get kicked out by Atletico.
Now we sign harry kane and your short term debt is suddenly up to 100 million and we would be on our way to become the next parma coz no sheikh or abrahamovich is coming to save us!
Its a hypothetical scenario..but still if you don't get what I am saying then I will leave it at that.
TIP: Please have a finer understanding of concepts before writing something don't go into intricacies just with your broad understanding.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby aterford » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:13 pm

prasun77 wrote:Ok dude..guarantee that these short term debt will remain shrt term and won't keep on accumulating.Have you ever gambled?

I will make it even simpler for you and if you don't understand even this then I am done with you..
Sppose we but alexis and accumulate a "short term debt" of say 40 million..we get kicked out of group stages in the ucl by psg,Roma and at this rate even celtic..
What do we do..to recover the debt buy suppose dele alli accumulating another short term debt of say 40 million..this time we make it to Ro16 and then get kicked out by Atletico.
Now we sign harry kane and your short term debt is suddenly up to 100 million and we would be on our way to become the next parma coz no sheikh or abrahamovich is coming to save us!
Its a hypothetical scenario..but still if you don't get what I am saying then I will leave it at that.
TIP: Please have a finer understanding of concepts before writing something don't go into intricacies just with your broad understanding.


On the contrary, it seems that you're the one trying to delve into intricacies with a base-level understanding.
Nobody is saying you need to compound your debts year after year. I'm not sure where you got such an idea, and it's a flawed narrative to operate under such assumptions. I'm not sure why you've chosen to take a gambler's fallacy approach as nobody is advocating for this, so it's a bit of a straw man, but okay. Let's assume a rational, reasonable level of operational debt, and go from there.

As you've mentioned ad nauseam, we turned over €33m post-tax profit. Let's say we spend €75m on a player this summer while maintaining our "usual" transfer policy other than that.

Can we afford this? Is such a purchase "not sustainable"?
Why?
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