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Thomas Müller

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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby aterford » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:54 pm

#12 wrote:Erm sorry, we've had that discussion like 50 times here regarding Alonso... All of those times people were marked as "haters" or worse...
The real thing is this: Müller was not world class lately... For a while... Yet when he was played in position, it's not like he was shit either! He was decent... So the real question is: would you judge Alonso or any other player the same way you judge Müller had it been Them who had to play there for the first time in ages, and maybe like 15th time overall?


No, that's my point re: Alonso. Whenever Alonso has a bad game, nobody buys any excuses. Whenever Müller has a bad game there's always some sort of excuse for it. He was in position at the end of last year and played poorly. I don't consider RW to be "out of position" either as he's played the majority of his time with the DFB there in the last few years. So he's been in position thru the Euros and was rubbish. Wasn't out of position for most of this season and has been bad. Sure, he's been bad when played as the #9 but the fact of the matter is that even if he's in his 'preferred' position he hasn't made any huge contributions and still has yet to do anything noteworthy in an important match this season. if he wants to rack up assists vs Bremen, Ingolstadt, Darmstadt, whatever all year that's fine but not good enough to excuse the bad performances in between for me. Second striker to lone striker, #10 to #9, #10 to winger, False 9 to true #9, whatever, it is not a big a shock as you're making it out to be. It's like if we asked Alonso to move up and play the #10. I guarantee you Alonso would contribute more as a #10 than Müller has given us as a #9. Other players have been put out of position too and they've ALL delivered more than Müller has.
Like I said, look at Kimmich last year (or Alaba, Lahm, etc)
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby #12 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:33 am

So? I didn't make excuses, I acknowledged that... Yet I don't see much difference to Alonso - who is a definitive starter and gets the coaches trust... How do you expect Müller to assist, score, even contribute against big opposition when he never plays, or only gets to play when we're up by three or more already? Also he was rather unlucky, too (I think the player who hit the woodwork most times?!) - and he scored the winner at Gladbach, which I consider decent...
So yeah, you're gonna call it excuses... But they're legit...
Thanks for nothing, :pep: !!
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby aterford » Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:50 am

Well, for one, if we're being objective, Alonso has done much more for us this year and frankly has earned the coach's trust.

Let's be honest. What has Müller done to earn Carlo's trust? Why should he trust him in big games? Surely Carlo's aware of Müller's career so far but I'm sure he's also fully aware of Müller's struggles last summer and late last season. You can say that Müller doesn't get to play enough but frankly he hasn't given the coach any reason to play him any more than he has. The team comes first. I'm not going to put our team at a marked disadvantage by starting Müller just to help him get back in form. Sad to say it but right now we are a better team when he's not playing.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby #12 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:37 pm

What has Alonso done? You gotta keep in mind that Alonso was played first, and then shyfully delivered... (I still fail to see him being good except against RB...)
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:30 pm

During that scramble when they blocked the series of shots, it looked as if Muller could of scored the tap if had he paid attention, rather than screamed in the air for handball.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby JANCKER » Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:33 pm

Thiagoalcantara wrote:During that scramble when they blocked the series of shots, it looked as if Muller could of scored the tap if had he paid attention, rather than screamed in the air for handball.


STFU
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:26 pm

JANCKER wrote:
Thiagoalcantara wrote:During that scramble when they blocked the series of shots, it looked as if Muller could of scored the tap if had he paid attention, rather than screamed in the air for handball.


STFU



KNow your role King of Fake news
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby aterford » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:07 am

Thiagoalcantara wrote:During that scramble when they blocked the series of shots, it looked as if Muller could of scored the tap if had he paid attention, rather than screamed in the air for handball.


He's not even wrong. Thiagoalcantara and I disagree on a number of things but if we're being objective here as I've said a million times Müller's body language is ALL over the place this season. He's getting frustrated SO much faster than he has in the past. His work rate isn't as efficient as it has been. He gets mentally taken out of games in minutes, seconds.
Again I'm not trying to be too harsh on the guy, really, I'm not, but you have to have some rose-tinted glasses on to look at Müller this season and not think something's wrong.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby aterford » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:10 am

#12 wrote:What has Alonso done? You gotta keep in mind that Alonso was played first, and then shyfully delivered... (I still fail to see him being good except against RB...)


Alonso has been great for us in nearly every performance this year and nearly every neutral pundit or observer has agreed, it's only the Pep Raus and anti-Alonso crowd who don't think so.

But nevertheless Alonso could score a hat trick in the UCL final and people on Bayernforum.com would still complain that he doesn't have pace. There's no convincing these folks so let's get back to the topic at hand: this is about Müller, not Alonso.

What has Müller done this year to warrant a starting spot? Why should Carlo trust him to perform in an important game? Can you honestly say that right now we're a better team when he's on the pitch?
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby JANCKER » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:27 am

aterford wrote:it's only the Pep Raus and anti-Alonso crowd who don't think so.


There's also a Pep crowd which bashes Muller... weird but true. Finally you guys have something in common with Thiagoalcantara... as he said everyone agrees with him in time.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:35 am

Actually, I was pro Muller and wanted Lewandowski ass to be dropped for a long time

However, Muller's form has sucked since the beginning of last year. It's one thing if it was tactics, like other guys, but with Muller, I think its more than just tactics.

It seems to me that Muller has truly burned out as a player. Workrate, even when you have no confidence, the workrate is always there however, with Muller it's definitely not there anymore. If Vidal lost his workrate/stamina, he would be a quarter of the player he is today. Muller I feel has the same thing.

I would bet that its physical moreso than mental with Muller and if that's the case, it really is time to move on from him and for Muller to find another club.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby JANCKER » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:40 am

Yeah, if I was Muller, I'd leave... but he's Bavarian through and through, it's not that easy for him. There's not much Bavarian left in this club anyway, he'd have it the same elsewhere.

He's never injured, he's young and to write him off just like that is ridiculous.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:12 am

Muller is not really young.

Hes turning 28.

Started in 2 world cups and 2 Euro Cups.

Literally played Champs league football every season.

His legs has so many miles on it because of his playstyle and Bayern/Germany

In addition, he's build like a twig.

Look at his stats: Only season he played less than 30 league games was 2012-13 and he still managed 28 league games that year.

Literally for like 7 year straight, he has played 50 games a season + international games, so potentially 60 games a season. Also, as I said before, his playstyle really acquires more work than an average attacker
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby aterford » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:46 am

It's actually something interesting to consider. I hope it's not the case, but Müller has put a lot of miles on his legs so even though he's 27 he's probably played as much as the average player in their 30s.

Just for a quick comparison I looked at the minutes played by Müller and compared them to Schweinsteiger.
Since joining the senior team and with Bayern, Man Utd, Chicago, and DFB, Schweinsteiger has averaged around 3,400 minutes played per season.
By the same measure, Müller with Bayern/DFB has averaged close to 4,500 per season.

This figure doesn't include youth playing records but honestly Müller logged considerably more minutes as a youth as well which would likely just inflate the disparity here.

So, all that to show that perhaps the mileage has begun to take its toll. Again, while I hope that's not the case, it's not entirely unheard of for guys who have played since a young age to hit a wall so to speak younger than you might expect (a guy like Rooney is a good example IMO)
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby JANCKER » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:53 am

Humans are not cars... he doesn't have the same freedom/role anymore, that's all. AM is where he's most effective.
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