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Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby aterford » Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:20 pm

tflags wrote:Criticism on Sanches is a 50/50 topic imho. He's far from a 35 to 80 million transfer whatever the horoscope says. That's plane and simpol.

Taking the money paid for him out of the equation, although his development curve has shifted when placed in a new envirorment it is easy to see he could easily develop into a fine footballer a bit later as should be normal.

So yes, the team might have paid TOO much for him, but the final word on this transfer is far from beign spoken. Let's wait a while until we call him the Portuguese Gotze.


At the end of the day right now Sanches' fee+wages is hitting us for about €10m a year which is pretty much right in line with a rotational player. Even if he hits all of his bonuses and becomes a Ballon d'or contender player he would still only bump up to about €19m a season....Vidal is currently on about €18m amortized. So if Sanches becomes a world class CM he will hit us the same per year as Vidal. When you look at it that way, it's not so bad. Right now he's really quite affordable.
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby Firefox1234 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:08 pm

I hate how most fans assume player development is linear when it is actually far from it. I don't know where people get this assumption when in general personal development isn't linear either, we all had/have bumps and slip ups before we are the person we strive to be so why would football be any different?
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby Coman » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:31 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:I hate how most fans assume player development is linear when it is actually far from it. I don't know where people get this assumption when in general personal development isn't linear either, we all had/have bumps and slip ups before we are the person we strive to be so why would football be any different?


Because some of them are not from la Liga or EPL or PSG-L1-do-brazil, are not south-american or have not played under Pep Guardiola. This kind of players are different for some people.
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:41 pm

Coman wrote:
Firefox1234 wrote:I hate how most fans assume player development is linear when it is actually far from it. I don't know where people get this assumption when in general personal development isn't linear either, we all had/have bumps and slip ups before we are the person we strive to be so why would football be any different?


Because some of them are not form la Liga or EPL, are not south-american or have not played under Pep Guardiola. This kind of players are different for some people.


Technical improvement is something you learn in your early years.

Once you become a pro, the idea that your technique will improve is hard to imagine.

For instance, Lukaku. This guy was a man amongst boys in Belgium and England when he was a teenager, yet, his technical skills were average. Fast forward 5 years, his technical skills are average.

Renato technical level is very average. He isn't a good dribbler nor a good passer. He doesnt have good vision nor does he have good tactically sense. His tactically sense can definitely improve. However, his technique is something that is what it is imo
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby Firefox1234 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:49 pm

Thiagoalcantara wrote:Renato technical level is very average. He isn't a good dribbler nor a good passer. He doesnt have good vision nor does he have good tactically sense. His tactically sense can definitely improve. However, his technique is something that is what it is imo

There is so much BS in this post I don't even wanna continue this debate cause it is clear you have not watched Sanches play or else you won't spout so much nonsense. I'm just gonna ignore this since I don't think it's worth getting worked up over something like this
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:53 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:
Thiagoalcantara wrote:Renato technical level is very average. He isn't a good dribbler nor a good passer. He doesnt have good vision nor does he have good tactically sense. His tactically sense can definitely improve. However, his technique is something that is what it is imo

There is so much BS in this post I don't even wanna continue this debate cause it is clear you have not watched Sanches play or else you won't spout so much nonsense. I'm just gonna ignore this since I don't think it's worth getting worked up over something like this


I've watch Sanches play a lot, especially when United started to scout him.

His technical skills are very very raw. Unless, you think he has good technique.


However, maybe our definition of good technique is different. If he had any tactical sense, he would be playing more games this season. Problem is, he doesn't. (Which is ok, sinces hes young)
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby Firefox1234 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:00 pm

Thiagoalcantara wrote:
Firefox1234 wrote:
Thiagoalcantara wrote:Renato technical level is very average. He isn't a good dribbler nor a good passer. He doesnt have good vision nor does he have good tactically sense. His tactically sense can definitely improve. However, his technique is something that is what it is imo

There is so much BS in this post I don't even wanna continue this debate cause it is clear you have not watched Sanches play or else you won't spout so much nonsense. I'm just gonna ignore this since I don't think it's worth getting worked up over something like this


I've watch Sanches play a lot, especially when United started to scout him.

His technical skills are very very raw. Unless, you think he has good technique.


However, maybe our definition of good technique is different.

I feel like you are over emphasizing attributes that aren't necessarily important to his success as a midfielder. Sanches doesn't need to be a Thiago type midfielder who has the ball glued to his feet he has other attributes like his physical talents and body control that more than make up for what he lacks technically. But that is not me saying he is technically average on the contrary for a player of his skill set he his dribbling and confidence on the ball is higher than average and when you said his passing is average is what broke the camels back for him. Long or short range his scope of passes is already at a very high level so I don't know how anyone could come up with the conclusion his passing is "average" from watching him play. You make him sound like he is Luiz Gustavo...
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby Coman » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:12 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:You make him sound like he is Blaise Matuidi...


Fixed
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:17 pm

He doesn't need to be technical. However, as I said before, if this team was managed by either Simeone or Jose, I would bet my money on Sanches to beast. Problem is, it's not.

Problem is that he is coming to a team where almost every opponent will play passive and defend, giving him very little chance to do exhibit his strengths unless his touch is good.

If Renato sanches passing level is consider a high level, than I have no clue what to say to you.

If his passing/technique was anything near good, he would be playing more this season, especially with his fantastic workrate and speed in the midfield.
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby Firefox1234 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:22 pm

Thiagoalcantara wrote:He doesn't need to be technical. However, as I said before, if this team was managed by either Simeone or Jose, I would bet my money on Sanches to beast. Problem is, it's not.

Problem is that he is coming to a team where almost every opponent will play passive and defend, giving him very little chance to do exhibit his strengths unless his touch is good.

If Renato sanches passing level is consider a high level, than I have no clue what to say to you.

I feel like we are misunderstanding each other due to semantics, when I say high level I mean he isn't limited in what type of passes he can do. Players like Gustavo and Matuidi have a clear limited passing range and rely on a midfield partner who is highly proficient in passing to make up for it. In Sanches I don't see that, the kid can make almost any pass asked for him that can stretch the field and force defenders to respect it...
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:28 pm

Most midfielders can make any pass too imo. However, it's whether they are consistent with their passes is another thing.

Guys like Gustavo knew their role and played their role, same goes with matudi. I'm sure they can hit those passes as well, but probably nowhere near the ability or consistency of a Toni Kroos/BAstian (bayern) or a Verratti/Motta.

No one truly respects sanches passing. Lets be clear with that. If anything, they respect his hustle and his ability to go box to box.

It's very easy to see that not every player will fit every system and some players need to be on specific systems to excel. Sanches is definitely one of those players that might have chosen the wrong team based on current system/manager.
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Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby Firefox1234 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:03 pm

Thiagoalcantara wrote:Most midfielders can make any pass too imo. However, it's whether they are consistent with their passes is another thing.

Guys like Gustavo knew their role and played their role, same goes with matudi. I'm sure they can hit those passes as well, but probably nowhere near the ability or consistency of a Toni Kroos/BAstian (bayern) or a Verratti/Motta.

No one truly respects sanches passing. Lets be clear with that. If anything, they respect his hustle and his ability to go box to box.

It's very easy to see that not every player will fit every system and some players need to be on specific systems to excel. Sanches is definitely one of those players that might have chosen the wrong team based on current system/manager.

Im not saying opponents are coming in thinking Sanches can pass like Pirlo but it is an aspect of his game that keeps on their toes on top of his high energy style of play. It's much harder to come up against a well rounded player like Sanches in that respect...

Whether he chose the right team or not time will tell for now all we can do is wait. Also it's not like when he's not playing he's sitting on his ass not improving himself. Everyday he is training with world class players and growing as a player day by day. Would it be more beneficial for him to get more playing time? Yes no doubt about it, but he seems to be a well grounded lad who is willing to work hard, wait for his chance and make the most out of them. I feel like too many fans think since he isn't playing he's not getting any better which is false. Bayern at the moment have a world class squad and his time will come if he has the potential us fans and the board think he has....
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby Coman » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:29 pm

Imo Sanches has the potential to be a great passer and not a simple box to box physical player. He has nothing to do with a guy like Matuidi who can't make a long ball pass or a pass between 2 lines. He never did in his all career.

He showed some great thing against Atletico or against Arsenal and deserve more playing time but Ancelotti doesn't want to rush him til Sanches is not ok on a tactical point of view.

Image
Image

Of course Sanches will NEVER be a Pirlo, Busquets or Xabi Alonso but a player like Vidal is saw as a box to box player but with the time he showed his ability to play as a regista. Just look his game against Juventus away last season ... it's just a master piece from the chilean.

The point is Sanches is far from the average technical skills/pass young player some here talk about.
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby Firefox1234 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:53 pm

Thank you Coman! Those gifs are perfect! I don't know how someone can look at a 19 year old pass like that and call his skills average
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Re: Renato Sanches [Renato Júnior Luz Sanches]

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:57 pm

There is a lot of confusion and false ideas about Renato because of his physical appearance. He isn't a primarily defensive MF, for instance, he is more of an attacking one actually. His passing, composure, dribbling, shoot, are all already pretty good, what I want him is to develop in tackling do he can become a bona fide complete b2b.

Pd: great gifs Coman!

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