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Player Valuations

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Player Valuations

Postby tflags » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:14 pm

ramsej84 wrote:
tflags wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:Who is Hamsik? :-/

An extremely underrated Slovakian playing from Napoli.

He will be playing in Malta next Sunday.
I will scout him for you
He is a very good player who can play for every top team in the best five leagues.


Thks. He's a very dangerous player. I was discussing him over with a friend once while he did this:

Kimmich
Kimmich - Thiago - Kimmich
Kimmich -- Kimmich
Kimmich -- Hummels -- Boa --Kimmich
Kimmich with Gloves
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby MUTU » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:26 pm

ramsej84 wrote:
MUTU wrote:Considering Bayern's biggest sale was 30m for Kroos who years later is now rated 60m, I think we better go in the corner and hide when talking about abilities of our clubs to get a good price for our players.

But his contract was running out.
TBH I was surprised that we managed that ...


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You do realise that if he was the biggest sale at 30m it means all other sales were of a lower value, right?

Over the years we had players like Elber, Salihamidzic, Ballack, Hargreaves, Pizarro, Ze Roberto, Toni, Van Bommel, Klose, Reina, Kroos and Gomez leave for relative peanuts and if you add the transfer fees we recouped from all these players you'll probably be left with not too much money more than what Kroos alone is worth today.
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby pyrasur » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:03 am

I agree with you that it's true that Bayern probably could have gotten more for many of those players. Bayern maybe isn't great at getting the most out of the transfer market when they sell players. But the way you argue that point is a little strange. You can't really relate players in different positions, different skill sets, and different contract situations. Definitely not without adjust for inflation anyway. Put Toni Kroos back in the same era as Michael Ballack, and he is NOT a 60 million euro player. Anyway, the way inflation is nowadays it probably makes little sense to sell a player who's value is going to continue rising steadily. Might explain why many of those players were allowed to reach the end of their contracts instead of being sold.

Even if Bayern were able to squeeze a few percentage points more in transfers fees, not that I know what's going on behind the scenes, but there's likely a reason Bayern conduct business the way they do. I wouldn't be surprised if players were willing to come to Bayern knowing that, once they've lost their sporting value to Bayern, Bayern is accommodating in finding a suitable buyer. Mario Gomez was definitely worth more than he was sold for (despite being a technically deficient goal machine ;)). But still he found his way to Fiorentina.
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby envagyokazapad » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:50 am

MUTU wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:
MUTU wrote:Considering Bayern's biggest sale was 30m for Kroos who years later is now rated 60m, I think we better go in the corner and hide when talking about abilities of our clubs to get a good price for our players.

But his contract was running out.
TBH I was surprised that we managed that ...


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You do realise that if he was the biggest sale at 30m it means all other sales were of a lower value, right?

Over the years we had players like Elber, Salihamidzic, Ballack, Hargreaves, Pizarro, Ze Roberto, Toni, Van Bommel, Klose, Reina (does it really matter?), Kroos and Gomez leave for relative peanuts and if you add the transfer fees we recouped from all these players you'll probably be left with not too much money more than what Kroos alone is worth today.


Hargreaves was sold for a more than fair price if I remember correctly...of course not 30 million, but 30 million for every goddamn player only became a standard a few seasons ago. Most of the transfers you mentioned occurred a long time ago (=5+ years is a long time ago if you consider how the market changed recently!) and those players were already well past their peak and aging...(Miro was like 33, MVB 34 when they left - you will never get top player fee at that age).

We are just not selling our top players that's why we are not getting top player fees. We could have sold Ribery for 80-90 million when he was in his 20s...
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby MUTU » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:46 am

envagyokazapad wrote:Hargreaves was sold for a more than fair price if I remember correctly...of course not 30 million, but 30 million for every goddamn player only became a standard a few seasons ago. Most of the transfers you mentioned occurred a long time ago (=5+ years is a long time ago if you consider how the market changed recently!) and those players were already well past their peak and aging...(Miro was like 33, MVB 34 when they left - you will never get top player fee at that age).

We are just not selling our top players that's why we are not getting top player fees. We could have sold Ribery for 80-90 million when he was in his 20s...

Hargreaves was a good sale, in hindsight. At the time of the sale however I was disappointed. He was the best English player at the time (won best English player at World Cup 2006) and still young. Inferior, older English players were being traded for more money. Of course, one couldn't tell he'd have such a bad run of injuries while at United or else they wouldn't have bought him.

Luca Toni stopped playing for Bayern (loan, and ultimately left for free) a whole 5.5 seasons before becoming top scorer in Italy.

Pizarro, the record foreign Bundesliga top scorer, left for Chelsea, also on a free, in the prime of his career, aged 28.

Ballack also left on a free transfer to Chelsea about a year or so after Bayern refused a €50m or so offer from Chelsea, which at the time was a very large sum of money.

Ze Roberto also left on a free transfer, and he was so good that a year later Bayern got him back to play for another 2 seasons, and he's still playing today aged 42, recently claiming he's still good enough to be playing in the Bundesliga.

Salihamidzic left on a free transfer as well, when his market value was estimated at €7.25m.

Bayern sold a 27 year old Gomez, most prolific scorer in DFB Pokal and Champions League history for €15.5m in the same window when Man Utd paid €32.4m for Marouane Fellaini, Real Madrid paid €32m for Illarramendi and €101m for Bale while PSG paid €25m for Yohan Cabaye.
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Re: Player Valuations

Postby MUTU » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:59 am

Also I see a lot of people praising management for selling Kroos for €30m when he had a year left on his contract. I say **** that, if Bayern had sold him a year earlier they could have easily gotten €50m for him. Basically Bayern lost out on some €27m (€50m - €30m + €7m salary) just for keeping him a year longer in the squad.
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Re: Player Valuations

Postby Achilles » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:34 pm

Maybe MUTU but I don't think that Bayern wanted him to leave or sell him in the first place, probably the board thought that Kroos will eventually low his demands in order to stay at the club where he was raised as a footballer, I think they didn't see that coming and when Kroos stated that he doesn't want to sign an extension with that kind of money they couldn't do much... it was a one-way, the option to hold him against his will while Real Madrid bid a fair price wasn't there, Kroos professionalism in Bayern shirt was exellent, he deserved to choose his next destination since the negotiations didn't flourish.
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Re: Player Valuations

Postby envagyokazapad » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:39 pm

MUTU wrote:Also I see a lot of people praising management for selling Kroos for €30m when he had a year left on his contract. I say **** that, if Bayern had sold him a year earlier they could have easily gotten €50m for him. Basically Bayern lost out on some €27m (€50m - €30m + €7m salary) just for keeping him a year longer in the squad.


You'd still have to subtract the value Kroos brought during that one year he still spent here, not to mention there obviously wasn't a 100% chance he'd leave the next year. Things just aren't as simple as you are putting them.

The examples you wrote seem to just strengthen the point that we are not SELLING top players. We are more interested in keeping them than selling them for a sum. Maybe it's a good strategy, maybe not, but the fact of matter is, we simply kept all the players we could have got the most value for.

Also, for god's sake we sold Gomez to Fiorentina, which goes to show how wanted exactly he was at the time. He never really "signed upwards" after that either. Gomez is a bad example, we didn't need him, he barely played, he barely fit in, he wanted away...you can't expect a top deal for a player, who hardly shows his best face for an entire season.

There is a reason why we are not a sellers club :P If you look at the transfers of Real/Barca I'm sure you'll find similar or even worse cases. The only ones who do this business significantly better are the seller clubs, the Portuguese, the French and certain Dutch clubs.
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Re: Player Valuations

Postby PunkCapitalist » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:14 pm

Gómez wanted to go to Italy and Bayern respected his wish despite getting a significantly lower fee than he would have fetched in England. We have discussed this before. Bayern let's players chose their destination and preserves it's good-guy club family vibe.

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Re: Player Valuations

Postby MUTU » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:34 pm

Achilles wrote:Maybe MUTU but I don't think that Bayern wanted him to leave or sell him in the first place, probably the board thought that Kroos will eventually low his demands in order to stay at the club where he was raised as a footballer, I think they didn't see that coming and when Kroos stated that he doesn't want to sign an extension with that kind of money they couldn't do much... it was a one-way, the option to hold him against his will while Real Madrid bid a fair price wasn't there, Kroos professionalism in Bayern shirt was exellent, he deserved to choose his next destination since the negotiations didn't flourish.

Well, it was the management's fault in any case. They could have met his demands for an extension 2 years before the contract expired, but they didn't value him as much as he valued himself. They tried again a year later and failed to meet the same demands that Real Madrid agreed to. Clearly he was worth the salary he was asking for (which is the same salary a 33-year old oft-injured Ribery is currently on) but our management tried to play hardball.
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Re: Player Valuations

Postby MUTU » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:41 pm

envagyokazapad wrote:Gomez is a bad example, we didn't need him, he barely played, he barely fit in, he wanted away...you can't expect a top deal for a player, who hardly shows his best face for an entire season.

Oh no you didn't. Wasn't his winning the top scorer award in the Pokal and a strike rate of 1 goal every 13 mins (off the top of my head) playing time enough? Of course he fit in. Where do you get the "barely fit in"? It's almost as if you're talking about Petersen or Hashemian. This is a guy with the best goals-per-minute ratio in Bayern's history, surpassing even Gerd Mueller. You can say many things about Gomez, like his lack of technique, but you can't possibly think he barely fit in, because nothing could be further from the truth.
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Re: Player Valuations

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:30 pm

envagyokazapad wrote:Gomez is a bad example, we didn't need him, he barely played, he barely fit in, he wanted away...you can't expect a top deal for a player, who hardly shows his best face for an entire season.

You should be banned for provocation. :mrgreen: :P :lol:
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