You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Discussions about the former / present players & staff, and their personal life. Was a player fined for speeding? Did a former player become a coach? Find it all here.
 

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Firefox1234 » Thu May 01, 2014 6:40 pm

I remember how some of us called for Jupp to get sacked after his first season. For what Pep has done in his first season at least he was able to win a trophy and i bet it only gets better from here
Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
User avatar
Firefox1234
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 14064
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:42 am
Location: USA
National Flag:
Kenya
Has thanked: 4684 times
Been thanked: 2985 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Jorsett » Thu May 01, 2014 7:34 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:I remember how some of us called for Jupp to get sacked after his first season. For what Pep has done in his first season at least he was able to win a trophy and i bet it only gets better from here

As long as he evolves the pseudo-tiki-taka we're trying to do.
#DankeBasti
User avatar
Jorsett
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:39 pm
National Flag:
Norway
Has thanked: 88 times
Been thanked: 105 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Element » Fri May 02, 2014 12:47 pm

I have moved the Pep Press conference and gave it a thread on its own

to read it , click here
User avatar
Element
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 17746
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere on Google Earth
National Flag:
Jordan
Has thanked: 506 times
Been thanked: 936 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby samaj » Fri May 02, 2014 1:35 pm

Okay put it this way, we had a big lose under guardiola, now why is that a good thing? because this will never happen again, so its good it came early in order to learn from in than late.

Leave Pep for the next season we'll see if we should sack him or not

(Feels good to be back forum) :D
"My Heart Is Here.
My Heart Is Red." -Schweinsteiger
User avatar
samaj
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 992
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 4:53 pm
Location: Jordan
Has thanked: 59 times
Been thanked: 66 times
Gender: Male

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby MaCk0y » Fri May 02, 2014 5:31 pm

It's blasphemous even mentioning sacking Pep! He won the Bundesliga in record time, the UEFA Super Cup, The Club World Cup, made it to the semi finals of the CL and there is still a possibility of winning the DFB Cup. Yes we were beaten 5-0 on aggregate by Real Madrid but I blame set piece defending and loss of form of players. I don't want us becoming Real Madrid, sacking coaches left, right and center even though he wins championships/cups. Few months ago, we were breaking record after record and nobody even thought about sacking Pep (except for those who hate Pep) but now after the defeat against Real Madrid, it's "Sack Pep". Have some faith. You cannot always win. Nobody won back to back CL yet. Players must take their share of blame. It's not only Pep's fault. They get paid millions as well.
User avatar
MaCk0y
Assistant Admin
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 5904
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:46 pm
Location: Malta
Has thanked: 1760 times
Been thanked: 1464 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby envagyokazapad » Fri May 02, 2014 6:32 pm

The main issue with Pep is not that we won this or lost that. The issue is he started playing a game that is way too easy to play against. Hence why we lost, drew, or even when we won, suffered against most of our big opponents. Those teams that can get close to matching our squad strength and can adapt tactically. We don't seem to stand much chance to score against them. And that is a huge issue in my opinion.

I never expected him to win anything this year and I'm still disappointed because the game he brought here is light years behind the game we played last season. Even if we get better at playing his game, we are still going to be easier to play against.

He obviously won't get sacked. However if he keeps playing like this next year he's got to pray for results to come, or he won't survive next season imo.
User avatar
envagyokazapad
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:45 am
Has thanked: 59 times
Been thanked: 470 times
Gender: Male

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby theundead » Fri May 02, 2014 7:59 pm

envagyokazapad wrote:The main issue with Pep is not that we won this or lost that. The issue is he started playing a game that is way too easy to play against.


but if you see our performances before the winter break, we were very unpredictable and very difficult to play against.

Now the issue is whether our lackluster performances in the second half of the season are due to Pep's possession mania or due to our players losing being out of form or demotivated (or maybe there are some dressing room issues at play here[?]).
User avatar
theundead
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 880
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:46 pm
Location: Lahore, Pakistan
National Flag:
Pakistan
Has thanked: 523 times
Been thanked: 406 times
Gender: Male

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby envagyokazapad » Fri May 02, 2014 8:27 pm

Even before the winter break there was only a short period during which our game worked well. That was a mixture of our previous game and some of Pep's idea. Everything before that looked like a transitional phase, everything after that is just transitioning to tikitaka with little direct play. We weren't that impressive during the Club World Cup either if you consider how subpar those opponents really were. It's hard to imagine we wouldn't be very motivated in those games, since the players haven't actually won that trophy before?

I still maintain that what we played during the majority of this season is a huge stepback. I really look forward to seeing what Pep comes up with during the offseason. I think who we sign and who we sell will be a great indication of his intentions, and how far the board will actually let him go.
User avatar
envagyokazapad
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:45 am
Has thanked: 59 times
Been thanked: 470 times
Gender: Male

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby KateL » Fri May 02, 2014 8:27 pm

Pep didn't approve of the way we played before the winter break and said as much sometime in like February or March. What happened then was the player kept reverting back the the Heynckes was after get frustrated and not scoring in the first 60ish minutes.
User avatar
KateL
Yeah, now I'm talking!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:01 am
Has thanked: 302 times
Been thanked: 92 times
Gender: Female
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby München Minded » Fri May 02, 2014 9:43 pm

I think Pep was exactly what the club needed after winning the treble last season. The only way to improve and not get complacent is to instill fresh ideas and get the team re-motivated. Does that mean Heynckes couldn't have repeated last season if he stayed? Maybe he could of, but history with any club says no. Everyone would have been calling for his retirement (instead of Pep's head) if he were still in charge, based on the same results Pep had this season.

Individually I think the players could improve and some have under Pep. The problem is carrying over ideas from his time at Barca and his time under the mentorship of LvG. mapping the Bayern players to his system will take time, if he believes success can be achieved with that system. Pep believes it will work against any team even Real and dortmund with counter attack. Can those other team's systems be nullified completely?

I do believe in the CL that the players did fail in certain instances, and where we have struggled for years even under Heynckes, at set pieces. Even teams like chelsea focus on set pieces. In a set piece where the other team has the ball, we don't have possession and it leaves us like any other team with any other system, basic defending at those set pieces. It has nothing to do with possession! It really wasn't losing the first leg at 1-0 against Real, which is still a good result against a team like Real on their home field. We didn't get our asses handed to us by a 3-0 loss like dortmund did, and needed a miracle comeback. It was going down by a couple of goals mainly to set pieces that killed our morale and chances.

Ultimately we did give up and get complacent after we won the BuLi in record time. That was a big factor. In many ways I wish we had still been fighting for the BuLi crown, but then people would have said Pep wasn't an improvement over Heynckes. I also blame the world cup a little and that we were getting more injured players in recent weeks. If Bayern was completely focused on the CL and we had all players healthy and on form, including those like Ribéry who supposedly recovered but really weren't on form, then I believe we would have won. Then nobody would even discuss Pep's system. People discussed the failures of Pep's system when we weren't continuing to break records and winning after we won the BuLi title. That got into the team's heads. The media loves to instill doubt in successful teams to have a story to write, and ultimately the fans got sucked into it.

The more I think about it the more I believe that Pep's coaching abilities are still in tact and that the team has great abilities and that the team is working fine under Pep's system and control. Adding up all the injuries and other mental blocks around the time we won the BuLi this season, any team would crumble. Real has had their issues in recent years up until now where they finally broke through, same applies with several top level teams, even Barca of late. We really don't need messi or xavi to make Pep's system successful, we just need healthy and on form players we currently have, with some enhancements to backups when key players get injured. Players like Götze and other bench players, haven't really stepped in and helped the system. We can't rely on a single player like Ribéry, and neither he nor Schweini hasn't really shined since returning from injury. These are KEY players!! How can we work as an amazing unit when our first team choice players aren't living up to their responsibility! We can't rely on Robben to keep scoring wonder goals like in seasons past.

I can't wait till the World Cup comes and goes, and we start next season in proper fashion with some fresh recruits and a healthy team. Then we will be focused only on Bayern and making success.
der Kaiser:
“We should not fool ourselves. We are not one of the world's top teams any more”
“The defence has to get used to playing with the goalkeeper”
"They are all like prostitutes: they smoke, they're lazy, and they sleep all day"
User avatar
München Minded
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1434
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 9:58 pm
Has thanked: 439 times
Been thanked: 176 times
Gender: Male

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat May 03, 2014 5:46 pm

I think many of you have an exaggerated idea of last season's Bayern.

"I never expected him to win anything this year and I'm still disappointed because the game he brought here is light years behind the game we played last season. Even if we get better at playing his game, we are still going to be easier to play against." :?: :?: I don't agree at all. It is easy to forget that the same game we played last season won nothing the previous year. Even last season, we lost to BATE and Arsenal, struggled away against Lille, lost at home to Leverkusen (our first league loss this season came after the title was won not in October) and were lucky to beat them away. This season in the Bundesliga we dropped just 1 more point than last season (12 compared to last season's 11) and 8 of those points were dropped after we won the title.

Just look at our reaction after we confirmed him as our next coach. No one was saying "OMG what a terrible decision he is going to ruin this perfect style we play" and that is because our style was nowhere near perfect. Actually the first post expressing concern came more than 3 months later, by none other than myself, on 24 April 2013: mere hours after beating Barcelona 4-0. We were not even favourites vs Barcelona. Those two games have given us a false idea of how good our style under Heynckes was. We were good, I'm not saying we weren't, but in retrospect we are overrating it and it is not likely we'd have repeated that.

The Heycnkes era had its own flaws. We couldn't win without Schweinsteiger or Ribery, let alone both, and people didn't blame the coach for that. So why are we complaining if Pep cannot win without Thiago? At least he has proven he can win without Schweinsteiger and Ribery. When Heynckes was there we rarely, if ever, won a game when we were losing at some point. Guardiola has done that several times.

Just like the 4-0 against Barcelona is giving us a false idea of how good Heynckes Bayern was, the 4-0 against Real Madrid is giving us a false idea of how bad Guardiola Bayern is. We were destroyed and humiliated once... ok fine. But remember that Guardiola in Europe has only lost against Real Madrid and Manchester City, and apart from this 4-0 he never lost by more than one goal. He drew with Arsenal and Manchester United. Heynckes in his first season lost against both Real Madrid and Manchester City (I know he still qualified vs Real, but remember it took penalties) as well as against Basel of all teams, and drew with Napoli and Chelsea (lost the latter on penalties). Hardly a better first season, and he failed to deliver the Bundesliga too. He played the Pokal final against Dortmund just like Guardiola will and was humiliated 5-2. It remains to be seen whether Guardiola will do better or worse.

Even last season, if we look at it game-to-game rather than at the whole thing, he lost vs BATE and Arsenal, and drew vs Valencia. Up until the semi-final he had a worse record in the tournament than Guardiola and losing twice in 8 days against Real Madrid doesn't change that. It just shows that Guardiola's team happened to peak earlier than Heynckes's and lost form at the most crucial point of the season while Heynckes's peaked at the most important point, just like Real Madrid this season.
Super Bayern! Super Bayern! Hey! Hey!
User avatar
FCBayernMunchen
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 31578
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 8906 times
Been thanked: 7524 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby FCB&Paulaner » Sat May 03, 2014 6:27 pm

In principle I agree, that after 2012 we looked much worse and everyone was blaming JH, for that CL final against Chelski, which was not entirely his fault (apart from that Muller substitution for DVB, in my opinion gave Chelsea some option...however). he had no bench and it is true that if Gomez or Ribery or whoever would under perform, well it was over, like we saw. But, he made a great analysis afterwards and Bayern did a great transfer window, the best of the last decade, and filled in the right gaps. We were not overrated and in two games versus Barcelona we were the better team. We had a different style, but we created hundred of chances and pressed our opponents very hard. we killed arsenal in London, like no team has done before, and in the second leg we were complacent, that's it.
I can see the parallel with Guardiola comparing the seasons, but we are overlooking one thing here. Against Real, we merely created any chance, which was never the case last year. Even against Chelsea, we lost how we lost but we lacked a real striker and luck, lost a penalty etc. Chelsea would have never scored a second goal.
I believe Guardiola will take us again to CL glory, to be honest I didn't expect it to happen this year, due to our defensive problems. Without a proper defensive system you just cannot win trophies, this is what JH understood (when we bought Martinez, I told my friends this is going to be our CL), and I hope Guardiola will do his homework for next season (we really need to tackle this set pieces bullshit). Apart from everything, it is always hard to motivate a team that has won it all. I saw players even laughing after 0-2, something that last years would have unleashed their fury. So that defeat versus Real might be really what we needed to come stronger next year and be ready to conquer Europe..but some tweaking needs to be done first.
User avatar
FCB&Paulaner
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:36 pm
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 142 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat May 03, 2014 6:39 pm

I'm not saying we were overrated. We were clearly the best team in Europe (even in 2012 imo) and we deserved everything we won. I'm just saying that winning 7-0 against Barcelona has confused many into believing today that we were better than we were in reality. We're expected to just destroy opponent after opponent. It was never like that. We destroyed Barcelona much like Real destroyed us but that was our best few weeks under Heynckes (like Real are having their best moment of the season now). It's not like we had been playing like this all the time Heynckes was coach. You can even look at what happened AFTER that game, in the last 3 matches of the season. Two minor shocks vs Gladbach in the Bundesliga and Stuttgart in the Pokal and needing a last minute winner vs Dortmund in the CL.
Super Bayern! Super Bayern! Hey! Hey!
User avatar
FCBayernMunchen
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 31578
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 8906 times
Been thanked: 7524 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby FCB&Paulaner » Sat May 03, 2014 7:04 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:I'm not saying we were overrated. We were clearly the best team in Europe (even in 2012 imo) and we deserved everything we won. I'm just saying that winning 7-0 against Barcelona has confused many into believing today that we were better than we were in reality. We're expected to just destroy opponent after opponent. It was never like that. We destroyed Barcelona much like Real destroyed us but that was our best few weeks under Heynckes (like Real are having their best moment of the season now). It's not like we had been playing like this all the time Heynckes was coach. You can even look at what happened AFTER that game, in the last 3 matches of the season. Two minor shocks vs Gladbach in the Bundesliga and Stuttgart in the Pokal and needing a last minute winner vs Dortmund in the CL.


Well, I wouldn't read much into the last games in Bundesliga, we were already champions, and the pokal final, I think the guys had hangover after partying for CL trophy :) but the trophy was never really in danger. I had no adrenaline in that game, I just knew we had it, by the way we were creating chances. if you follow Bayern, you know by how they play that they can even comeback from 0-2 in just 10 mins.

As for being considered better than in reality after Barca victory, I don't think so. We just played some amazing football in 2013 and I don't think any team could have matched us that year. CL final is different story 50-50 chance one game. We even outplayed Real in two games in 2012, and that Real was the strongest since 2002, and even stronger than this year's Real. This year's Real is italian tactics with lethal counters.
Drawing the parallel between Real game and our Barca game last year is not a good comparison. Different styles, change of philosophy etc. Last year's Bayern would have killed them easily (Dortmund showed the world how to press them and win. Pep apparently didn't watch that video. They were simply lucky to get in the semis. they were outplayed!, which never has happened to Bayern last year and even this year before the semis) . The Real game came in the worst possible moment in our season. We were champions too early, lost a bit focus, we were/are evolving into Pep's system, too much changes of positions between players, out of form Ribery, perhaps the death of Vilanova could have influenced a bit Pep's concentration (although I would not count it, just saying..), as well as people in Germany within the club start questioning his tactics in the worst possible moment of the season. After all loosing to Real in Bernabeu 1-0 is not the end of the world. Should even be considered a good result. I believe that we could have played entirely differently against Real for example even before December. The city game just proved how lethal that team can be if they play to their potential and pace. So, we just played poorly in defense (goals from three set pieces) did not show energy and passion and did little to create chances. CL is decided by details and we simply didn't do well at home. I think we were tactically not prepared for that game. period. So it was a tactical battle between coaches, where Ancelotti did his homework, while Pep underestimated them, at least.
User avatar
FCB&Paulaner
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:36 pm
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 142 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat May 03, 2014 7:19 pm

FCB&Paulaner wrote:Well, I wouldn't read much into the last games in Bundesliga, we were already champions, and the pokal final, I think the guys had hangover after partying for CL trophy

I agree, but it's a sign that just because we can destroy doesn't mean we cannot struggle against weaker teams. Especially when some people ignore the "Bundesliga was already over thing" when it comes to Guardiola.

FCB&Paulaner wrote:We just played some amazing football in 2013 and I don't think any team could have matched us that year.

Again I agree, but it's not like we were winning by 5+ goals aggregate every game. I can't tell you the number of times I heard "Last season Bayern could beat Barcelona 7-0 and now they can't beat (insert team here, most commonly Manchester United)". Fact is we were already getting similar results against similar teams last season, even if we did play some incredible football from the quarter-finals on.

FCB&Paulaner wrote:This year's Real is italian tactics with lethal counters.
Drawing the parallel between Real game and our Barca game last year is not a good comparison. Different styles, change of philosophy etc.

I'm not drawing a parallel between the games or the scores as such but rather between the ways people reacted after both. I believe that just as people easily forgot the flaws we had after we destroyed Barca, now they are forgetting the good stuff and looking only at the bad after we were destroyed by Real.

I also do not think there is any guarantee we would have beaten this Real Madrid last year, though I think we would. Then again I also think we would have beaten them had we played in the last 16.

I agree completely with the remaining part of your post (not letting me highlight and quote for some reason). Those factors you mentioned are precisely why I think we could have won earlier this season and it's exactly why it doesn't make sense to just say Pep destroyed Bayern after that loss because a lot of other factors were in place. Yes, there were mistakes and there are things which must improve, but people are overreacting.

Like you I would expect from a professional coach like Pep that he would not let the death of his friend affect his preparation for the most important game of the season, especially when it wasn't even the first game since his death. But he is only human and I suspect it did play a role. Maybe during a better period for the club he would have coped better but when you are in a crisis like we are in at the moment every little additional thing will strike a big blow.
Super Bayern! Super Bayern! Hey! Hey!
User avatar
FCBayernMunchen
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 31578
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 8906 times
Been thanked: 7524 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

PreviousNext

Return to Bayern Player & Staff Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests