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Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

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Re: Javi Martínez [Javier Martínez Aginaga]

Postby FCB general » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:46 pm

endrity wrote:Well we are not sacking Pep after one season, even if some might feel it will be deserved given his recent tactical decisions. And Javi wants to have a career, not ride the bench at Bayern.

No, we won't. But his three seasons at Bayern will be rated on his Champions league triumph. If he doesn't secure us just one European title, Guardiola hiring will be failure.

Sounds really senseless, but without one CL trophy we could easily hire young and talented Thomas Tuchel or someone else as Bayern coach to win Bundesliga and Pokal, play Champions league every season, etc.

So what I know, we want international success, those semi-finals every season and a chance to lift another European trophy.

I'm very concerned for Martinez, though. I don't get it how could this happened under Guardiola.

Apparently, the Catalan has seen Martinez as a CB during Barcelona era, but Martinez wasn't for sale and the Bask decided for München move because he knew he will have a chance to prove himself on the big stage as a midfielder and Busquets will with no doubt shut every single door for playing as CDM at Camp Nou, just as he's been doing all the time in Spanish NT.

That's exactly what Martinez did last season and he was praised by everyone, all around the world. The missing puzzle of Bayern failure and success in the last 2 CL campaigns.
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Re: Javi Martínez [Javier Martínez Aginaga]

Postby endrity » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:58 pm

FCB general wrote:
endrity wrote:Well we are not sacking Pep after one season, even if some might feel it will be deserved given his recent tactical decisions. And Javi wants to have a career, not ride the bench at Bayern.

No, we won't. But his three seasons at Bayern will be rated on his Champions league triumph. If he doesn't secure us just one European title, Guardiola hiring will be failure.

Sounds really senseless, but without one CL trophy we could easily hire young and talented Thomas Tuchel or someone else as Bayern coach to win Bundesliga and Pokal, play Champions league every season, etc.

So what I know, we want international success, those semi-finals every season and a chance to lift another European trophy.


Oh I definetely agree with you. Pep will be judged exclusively by his CL record. A part of me is/will be blaming him if we don't win it this year given the team that he was handed on a silver platter but that he decided to tinker around.

However even if there were grounds to sack him after one season the board just wouldn't do it for a myriad of reasons. It would ruin too much of Bayern's credibility with other potential coaches as well.

So if it comes down to, like I think it will, Pep v. Javi during the summer there will be only one winner in that one regardless of how we perform the rest of the season.
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Re: Javi Martínez [Javier Martínez Aginaga]

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:23 am

Come on guys, Guardiola took us to the semi-final in his first season. We may not reach the final or win it this year but we're still in the last four. I'm sure you guys remember how long it had been since we made the semis before Van Gaal and Heynckes took over. We haven't gone back to that time.

We've reached the semis and from there on anything can happen, especially this year with the quality of all four teams. The CL trophy is that one trophy which however good you are, however great you're playing, you just cannot expect to win it. There are so many other factors involved. I would be happy if he takes us to the last four in all three seasons even if we do not win it again.

And that said, I still believe we'll retain our title.

As for Martinez, we will see. He's featured in midfield the past two games, maybe he'll start playing there more regularly.
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Re: Javi Martínez [Javier Martínez Aginaga]

Postby rthebest » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:58 pm

I cannot believe people talking about sacking Pep or even consider his season a failure. Just let me remind you

We won Uefa super cup
we won club world cup
we won the bundesliga is a record time
we are pretty much alive in CL
we are in DFB final

still you consider this a failure. Considering that is Pep's first season not only at Bayern but outside of Spain I see this as a successful season.
You are simply comparing it with an extraordinary season which only can happen once in ages. If Pep get sacked after one season what would be the difference between Bayern and clubs like Chelsea? So stop complaining an get behind the team.

As far as Martinez I agree he hasn't adapted with Pep's system.
Last edited by rthebest on Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Javi Martínez [Javier Martínez Aginaga]

Postby endrity » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:18 pm

We have the best squad with the most complete roster in the footballing world. A squad in which a lot of money has been invested as well.
Guardiola will be held to high standards as would any coach that inherits the machine the Jupp built, and that's the way it should be. If this team does not win another CL in the next couple of season, it will be considered a failure, there is no two ways about it.

He's not taking 2008 or 2010 Bayern. He took on a treble winner with every player in their prime or yet to enter their prime.
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Re: Javi Martínez [Javier Martínez Aginaga]

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:31 am

Moved some posts here from the Martinez thread.

endrity wrote:We have the best squad with the most complete roster in the footballing world. A squad in which a lot of money has been invested as well.
Guardiola will be held to high standards as would any coach that inherits the machine the Jupp built, and that's the way it should be. If this team does not win another CL in the next couple of season, it will be considered a failure, there is no two ways about it.

He's not taking 2008 or 2010 Bayern. He took on a treble winner with every player in their prime or yet to enter their prime.

Well the question that begs to be asked is "Would Heynckes have been able to repeat last season himself?" I'm not taking away anything from Heynckes but getting the team to win after a season like 2012 is a whole different story from getting the team to win after a season like 2013. It is hard for any team that's won everything to remain motivated. Guardiola has managed to that in the past and by bringing him to Munich our players had to give their best and prove themselves to a new coach. It's enough to see how much less time players like Martinez (who was also unlucky with injuries) are getting under a new coach. Why? Well mostly because while Martinez was injured Lahm and Rafinha rose to the occasion and proved themselves.

If you want to see a failure, look at Benitez and Leonardo at Inter. They also took over from a treble winning team, and apart from the Super Cup and CWC (which Pep also won), they only won the Italian cup. They lost the league and were humiliated by Schalke (of all teams) in the quarter-finals of the Champions League. Since then it has gotten even worse and this season they didn't even play in the Europa League. THAT is a failure, not winning the league in record time, reaching the CL semi-finals, in the final of the German Cup and still on course for a treble in the last week of April. The fact is that currently Bayern are in the worst form they have been since 2011/12, and Pep needs to do something about that, but even so we still lost "only" 1-0 away from home against what is probably the team closest to Bayern in quality this season.

If you think that the only way Pep will not be a failure is if he wins another CL in the next couple of seasons, well then Guardiola and Ancellotti are the only two coaches in recent times who have managed to win the CL twice in the space of 3-4 seasons. Guardiola even managed it when his team had already won the trophy 3 years before him. There are very few better candidates for the spot, if any.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby SouthernStar » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:32 pm

Diverging into slightly off-topic from the last few discussions. I find it very weird that there had been no published comments from Pep regarding Tito's passing (may God rest his soul), I mean even Mourinho sent his condolences. I know that Pep had been avoiding the discussions due to the criticism for his apparent "unconcern" for his close friend during his sabbatical period in NY (and when Tito's treated there).

I think that Pep probably knows in some degree/context regarding Tito's condition, and might have affected him personally in recent days.

Back to the topic, I know there's quite a bit of pressure from us fans regarding Pep. And I agree that it's a pretty successful season considering that it's his first year in charge of a new team in a new country with a different system. And he is right in a sense that our board hired him because of his philosophies (and style). However it's good to know that he has come out and acknowledge the fact that he should try to find a good balance between his style and Bayern's strengths (and gosh Kloppo's *arguably* gegenpressing). I am inclined to think that the too much passing/slow buildup did contribute to the defeat in Bernebau. And the time of tiki-taka has also passed since it had been studied over and over again due to Barca's and Spain's success (the style which essentially was put to the sword by our team last season).

Also PSG almost beat Barca last season, Ancelotti now has a better team in Real Madrid, don't you reckon?

However, I think we fans also expected way too much from Pep, no one had managed to defend the CL title even with the same team, same coach etc... I'm not even sure if Jupp can defend the CL this year, but of course we would be more exposed to similar style of commanding football we saw last season. Would that in a sense make us fans happier?

And as people have mentioned, if you want to look at failures... look at Moyes or Benitez/Leonardo... especially the Inter situation where quite a bunch of their core players were still around, yet they were as miserable as gnats across most competitions.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:46 pm

Regarding your comment on Tito, Bayern just published a message of condolences on facebook just 10 minutes ago. I think we can expect Pep to comment on it after the game, or at least to be asked about it (maybe he will not answer). Pep will want to win the coming games and dedicate them to him.

SouthernStar wrote:However it's good to know that he has come out and acknowledge the fact that he should try to find a good balance between his style and Bayern's strengths (and gosh Kloppo's *arguably* gegenpressing).

That's what makes him in my eyes the best coach in the world. I do not buy all these comments that he wants to make Bayern a new Barcelona. He knows how to adapt. He's done it before and he'll do it again. Even if possession remains at the heart of his philosophy it does not mean that his philosophy has not adapted and changed with the times and in response to the current opposition. Pep was already making changes when he was still with Barcelona, after all.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby SouthernStar » Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:15 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:That's what makes him in my eyes the best coach in the world. I do not buy all these comments that he wants to make Bayern a new Barcelona. He knows how to adapt. He's done it before and he'll do it again. Even if possession remains at the heart of his philosophy it does not mean that his philosophy has not adapted and changed with the times and in response to the current opposition. Pep was already making changes when he was still with Barcelona, after all.


Agree, while the Barca elements are quite strong in the match against Real, I do not think that the style was the sole reason for the result imo (or the fact that a lot of people seems to think that we "are turning into Barca 2.0"). We had a couple of decent chances that were not buried. Not to mention, the lack of form that some of our players had been experiencing IMO are more worrying. Also, let's just face it... Real had and always been one of Europe's strongest teams and losing 1-0 in Bernebau is not a shame IMO.

I think a probable stigma might have been that a lot of people seems to think that this first year is designed for the team to click with the "system" and expects things to continue from last year. However, there need to be much trial and error to know whether it's effective or not and while doing so, I think both Pep and the team might learn of the best middle ground and set it as a target next season. Whether this system/middle ground will set us a higher standard in a season or two, we haven't know yet. The results of Pep's first season was already arguably better than Jupp's 2012 as a matter of fact. I'm more worried about our team's lack of hunger and inspiration to be honest rather and whether they are still able to produce similar results even if theoretically Pep had kept Jupp's system.

All that said, I do not put the blame solely (or mainly) on Pep, too much factors involved and I thin a fairer time to judge him is his results when he eventually leave the team.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby pyrasur » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:46 pm

Agree. His first season as it stands now is comparable to many of our past successes. But as the fans expect a lot from Pep, so too I bet Guardiola expects a lot from himself. He's gone from a team in Barcelona where he was not only its most successful manager, but also had spent so long there everything at Barcelona had his touch. He is one of the best coaches, and to come to a new team and learned a new language and managed to have us still in sight of a repeat trip to the CL final is a great feat. He still expects to go to Lisbon and won't be content with being just one of many other good coaches that have come here. Hope he can deliver on that.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby rthebest » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:50 pm

Pep hasn't have his full squad available due to injuries. Everybody fairly talks about Dortmund's injury problems, and forgets Bayern's. Martinez, Basti, Ribery , Shaqiri, Thiago, Gotze and not surprising Robben missed or have missed good chunk of the season and yet we had a good season thanks to Pep's willingness to experiment with players and system.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Rauntšik » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:05 pm

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"Normally Monsieur Candie, I would say "auf wiedersehen". But since what "auf wiedersehen" actually means is, till I see you again, and since I never wish to see you again to you sir, I say, goodbye."
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:31 pm

Guardiola assumes full responsibility for tonight's debacle [source]


GUARDIOLA NON E' IN BILICO"

Nonostante la debacle in Champions League, il futuro di Guardiola sarà al Bayern Monaco. Lo ha confermato Rummenigge dopo la partita: "Non possiamo mettere in discussione tutto dopo una sconfitta. E' un allenatore competente".

KRM said that the coach is not in danger (I am pretty sure that if we are to lose the Pokal final he will be fired). and we cannot question the coach after one defeat. He is a competent coach.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Mia san Bayern » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:48 pm

ramsej84 wrote:(I am pretty sure that if we are to lose the Pokal final he will be fired)

Doesn't seem very likely does it? Bayern is not a team who fires coached that easily. Especially when Guardiola managed to win the Bundesliga in record time they'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Don't forget that there were a lot of people who wanted to see Jupp gone after 2012 and look what he did the year after. So next season will be very important to Guardiola's career at Bayern. If he manages to adapt to Bayern and if he is able to adapt to his opponent than I see no reason for him to leave but if he doesn't do this then his reign might be as long as his recent predecessors.
Here (at his club of six years Bayern Munich) it is always good, here I am happy and here it's fun. That is more important for me than the national team.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Kevinx67 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:28 am

It's not losing the CL semi. It's how he lost it. It was no contest. About Pep being fired. I believe he will because one he doesn't know any other way to coach. Second the Kaiser doesn't like the way Bayern play under Guardiola. If the board can fire Klingsman and VanGaull then who is Guardiola not to receive the same fate.
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