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Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby tuscanybayern » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:46 am

I think Pep, more than the board or everyone else, was the one who screwed up our midfield, which is the reason for us failing to keep up with the triple's season.

Before Pep, we used to have an established Schweinsteiger-J.Martinez midfield duo, with Kroos and Gustavo as substitutes.
Nobody would have never doubted about our midfield back then. It was Schweini und Javi, earlier Schweini und Gustavo, Schweini und Van Bommel, Tymo....basically one world class regista and one defensive midfielder.

Then Pep came, Javi eventually got injured and Gustavo left for Wolfsburg. Pep said "Thiago oder nix", which was fine, since Schweini was peaking in his form, but he did not say "hey, bring in someone to pair with Schweini/Kroos/Thiago", NO, he would have rather moved Lahm and Alaba in midfield and converted Javi to defender, which was actually disrupting Jupp's midfield.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:53 am

Schweinsteiger: got old and declined
Javi: was playing (vs Chelsea for example) then got a long term injury and lost his place... But still featured regularly in defence when fit.
Gustavo: lost his place and left before Pep started.
Kroos: Pep wanted to keep him but the board wouldn't meet his demands.

How this is Pep's fault more than the board's is beyond me. He requested Thiago, probably Vidal too; easily our best two midfielders. Alonso was questionable but it's the board's decision that kept him here this season. Götze failed but that couldn't have been predicted and he requested Neymar anyway.


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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby #12 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:07 pm

Vidal was a board transfer, Guardiola didn't want him...
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:53 pm

Yeap. Vidal was definitely a board transfer. I think both dortmund guys too (gotze and lewandowski)

Pep personal picks were

Alonso
Bernat
Thiago
Costa

and maybe Coman

I think every other transfer were board based.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby #12 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:14 pm

From what I read Coman was as Reschke as it gets...
Lewandowski might be also partly a Guardiola player...

Either way, he's gone
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby aterford » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:06 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Schweinsteiger: got old and declined
Javi: was playing (vs Chelsea for example) then got a long term injury and lost his place... But still featured regularly in defence when fit.
Gustavo: lost his place and left before Pep started.
Kroos: Pep wanted to keep him but the board wouldn't meet his demands.

How this is Pep's fault more than the board's is beyond me. He requested Thiago, probably Vidal too; easily our best two midfielders. Alonso was questionable but it's the board's decision that kept him here this season. Götze failed but that couldn't have been predicted and he requested Neymar anyway.


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Even if it's true that Pep didn't want Vidal (I doubt that very much; perhaps had more of a say in the matter but I don't think Guardiola was against the transfer).....our midfield is still better off right now. I love Schweinsteiger but his decline came pretty fast after the treble and WC and let's not forget that, despite what the Pep-raus guys like to believe, Pep DID NOT force out Schweinsteiger. He has been a Man Utd fan forever and when he requested a transfer our board obliged. Period.
I still like Javi as a midfielder but if we're being fair Ancelotti has had chances to move him into midfield and hasn't done so either, so again, you can't pin that solely on Pep either. And honestly, he's been fantastic at CB and our midfield has been spectacular so I don't think we're any worse for him moving to CB. Gustavo would be a rotation piece at best and we're not lacking for midfield depth so we're not really missing out much there.
While we certainly had a strong midfield in 2012/13 I don't think it was our strongest position....we won the treble due to strong wing play that season. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to say our midfield is stronger now than it was then. If you swapped out Basti and Javi for Thiago and Vidal I don't think that would cause us to lose the treble. Nowadays our wingers are aging and that's the real issue--it's not a 'weakened midfield' or whatever.

So, the short of it is this: Pep didn't "screw up" our midfield and it doesn't have anything to do with "keeping up with the triple" as the main factor in that has been the increasing frequency of injuries and aging that's come with Robben and Ribery. Simply put, age and injury, not Guardiola, has been our main problem since the treble.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby JANCKER » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:39 pm

In 2012 I knew RM fans who peed their pants from the thought of Bayern and told me that Bayern was set to dominate for years in Europe, what happened? We pee our pants as soon as something Spanish is mentioned. :oops: Geta-(Oops, I think I just peed my pants)fe.

Danke, Pep.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby JANCKER » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:44 pm

aterford wrote:Even if it's true that Pep didn't want Vidal (I doubt that very much; perhaps had more of a say in the matter but I don't think Guardiola was against the transfer).


personnel-f8/michael-reschke-technical-director-t11746-45.html#p370536

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/champi ... -1.2912338

albanian7 wrote:The two acrobatic speedy wingers Coman & Costa pushed the team into quarterfinals with their plays and sprints: Costa assisted the 2-1. And finally there was Vidal, the aggressive general, who pushed the team forward until the end.

These cases were long stories, the easiest being Kimmich. Pep trusted Reschke when it came to the 21 year old. He was less euphoric for Vidal, but was outvoted by Reschke & Rummenigge, who keeps open channels with the Juventus leadership. The club observed many talented players from Europe and finally laid a list in front of Guardiola.

Guardiola agreed immediately to Douglas Costa's transfer, whom he had met several times in Champions League. There was also Coman to be borrowed - with a loan fee of 7 million in two years and then 21 millions for the final buying fee.


personnel-f8/michael-reschke-technical-director-t11746-105.html#p402375

nm462272 wrote:-Question: Did you have to convince Pep of Vidal? Answer: At the end of the season Pep said Vidal is a fantastic player.


https://www.tz.de/sport/fc-bayern/fc-ba ... 49265.html

aterford wrote:our midfield is still better off right now.


lol no.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:22 am

JANCKER wrote:In 2012 I knew RM fans who peed their pants from the thought of Bayern and told me that Bayern was set to dominate for years in Europe, what happened? We pee our pants as soon as something Spanish is mentioned. :oops: Geta-(Oops, I think I just peed my pants)fe.

Danke, Pep.


It's cause they had freakin Jose Mourinho as manager and the whole club was in disarray at REAL MADRID.

The year Bayern won the champs league, Real madrid lost to bayern in the semis, lost to atletico in the cup final, finished second to barcelona for the league. In addition, they had the whol Jose vs every SPAINARD on REal madrid, Jose vs Cristiano Ronaldo, etc...

THAT was a bad time for REAl madrid.

IF ROBBERY had the same form they did during the 2013 run with pep the next 3 years, Bayern would of probably won a Champs league during that span./
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Bentonomo » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:07 am

Thiagoalcantara wrote:
JANCKER wrote:In 2012 I knew RM fans who peed their pants from the thought of Bayern and told me that Bayern was set to dominate for years in Europe, what happened? We pee our pants as soon as something Spanish is mentioned. :oops: Geta-(Oops, I think I just peed my pants)fe.

Danke, Pep.


It's cause they had freakin Jose Mourinho as manager and the whole club was in disarray at REAL MADRID.

The year Bayern won the champs league, Real madrid lost to bayern in the semis, lost to atletico in the cup final, finished second to barcelona for the league. In addition, they had the whol Jose vs every SPAINARD on REal madrid, Jose vs Cristiano Ronaldo, etc...

THAT was a bad time for REAl madrid.

IF ROBBERY had the same form they did during the 2013 run with pep the next 3 years, Bayern would of probably won a Champs league during that span./


Without injuries and his shitty tactics
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby aterford » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:07 am

JANCKER wrote:
aterford wrote:Even if it's true that Pep didn't want Vidal (I doubt that very much; perhaps had more of a say in the matter but I don't think Guardiola was against the transfer).


personnel-f8/michael-reschke-technical-director-t11746-45.html#p370536

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/champi ... -1.2912338


aterford wrote:our midfield is still better off right now.


lol no.




Oh, so you've got a quote from a Tabloid. Well nice job, solid evidence right there. Just for sake of clarity though: "less enthusiastic" =/= totally against

News flash: Schweinsteiger couldn't play forever. We're better right now than we'd be if he were still here. Sad but true, I know.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby #12 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:08 am

Don't know what semis you're talking about, cause we beat Barcelona in the semis while Dortmund played Real... For someone who claims to be so knowledgeable you seem to have a really bad memory...
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby endrity » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:03 pm

I am a huge critic of Pep's time at Bayern, but the midfield dilemma is not entirely on him. Schweini's decline and Javi's injuries sort of forced his hand. Thiago has fully adapted and seems like a good purchase. I think it was the board rather than Pep to blame for Kroos.

The stupid formations and tactics are on him though.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Ziklitschli » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:26 am

Rauntšik wrote:Pep was an essential part of development for this club, both footballing wise and for international recognition and growth.


You mean, hiring a famous coach and getting trashed 5:0 is more international recognition than thrashing Barca mercilessly 7:0? The Spaniards were scared out of their minds of facing us and after 3 years od Pep and this year (with a lot of Pep's leftovers) we're close to becoming a running joke in Spain. Is that the recognition, because I hear it often but still fail to grasp the concept. Also, is Bayern München some Chinesse club that needs a fancy coach to be recognised? History and results speak for themselves.

Now, development footballing wise, another hard concept for me. Because, hey, Carlo, in his first season, with a bad lineup, weird subs, out of form Müller, Alonso straight from death bed, injured Lewy and 2 red cards, still managed to take the tie with Madrid to ET, silence the Bernabeu and put RM to the ropes for a good while. The result was 6:3, the real result 4:3 and the result 11 vs 11, 3:2. Now Pep, with younger players etc, we all know how it ended in his RM tie, I mean how bad is he? Were his abysmal, backwards tactics the supposed development?

Or is it how players slow down the attacks and start to play useless tiki taka, because of all the automations he drilled into them and Carlo refuses to get rid off?

Or his transfers? The decesive Thiago? The symbol of everything that's wrong with the team last few years, the living legend (of RM), Xavier Alonso?

Really can't see it and I'd rather say that he was the worst thing that could happen to us, his crap still haunting us.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby PunkCapitalist » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:49 pm

Ziklitschli wrote:
Rauntšik wrote:Pep was an essential part of development for this club, both footballing wise and for international recognition and growth.


You mean, hiring a famous coach and getting trashed 5:0 is more international recognition than thrashing Barca mercilessly 7:0? The Spaniards were scared out of their minds of facing us and after 3 years od Pep and this year (with a lot of Pep's leftovers) we're close to becoming a running joke in Spain. Is that the recognition, because I hear it often but still fail to grasp the concept. Also, is Bayern München some Chinesse club that needs a fancy coach to be recognised? History and results speak for themselves.

Now, development footballing wise, another hard concept for me. Because, hey, Carlo, in his first season, with a bad lineup, weird subs, out of form Müller, Alonso straight from death bed, injured Lewy and 2 red cards, still managed to take the tie with Madrid to ET, silence the Bernabeu and put RM to the ropes for a good while. The result was 6:3, the real result 4:3 and the result 11 vs 11, 3:2. Now Pep, with younger players etc, we all know how it ended in his RM tie, I mean how bad is he? Were his abysmal, backwards tactics the supposed development?

Or is it how players slow down the attacks and start to play useless tiki taka, because of all the automations he drilled into them and Carlo refuses to get rid off?

Or his transfers? The decesive Thiago? The symbol of everything that's wrong with the team last few years, the living legend (of RM), Xavier Alonso?

Really can't see it and I'd rather say that he was the worst thing that could happen to us, his crap still haunting us.

Damn, I thanked you before reaching the Thiago part. I was agreeing fully until that part. I retire my thanks. Consider yourself unthanked.

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