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Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Achilles » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:48 pm

@Firefox
Let's be realistic the home defeat against Real Madrid broke the glass, we just can't accept that miserable performance and defeat from our one and only big opponent in the CL, we have history with them pal, it's always tight even if it's a blowout scoreboard it was always fire in the 2nd game, we have played against Real Madrid 22 times and we have more wins more goals, in the knock out phase we're tied five qualifications for each one but they NEVER won at Munich, never not even a single draw and they are coming here smashing us like we're nothing? With the defensive line starting to circle of mid... Sorry I can't have that.

There many factors that Guardiola isn't so much appreciated among Bayern fans, he is a fantastic coach but a stubborn one, we got humiliated two times against the two big opponents of ours in Europe while we eliminated them when we faced them before, his tactical overhaul didn't work = his fault, I can't help it as much as I'd like to but he didn't help the team when it mattered the most, mind that he was the highest-paid coach in the world maybe(Europe sure) you're weak with many injuries against a hot/in form Barcelona and his plan was to start with 3 defenders, high pressing against MSN while Rafinha was one of the defenders in the first 20min. if it wasn't for Neuer... don't even want to think about it...

He is a great tactician when it comes to offense, maybe the best but you need to work on the small details in the defensive area too when you coach at the absolute highest level, period! Is a coincidence that his teams are always(!) conceding embarrassing goals? It's a coincidence that quality players are having so many brain-farts and individual errors? No man it's not a coincidence it's too much data and less defensive tactics.
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Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Firefox1234 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:26 pm

Achilles wrote:@Firefox
Let's be realistic the home defeat against Real Madrid broke the glass, we just can't accept that miserable performance and defeat from our one and only big opponent in the CL, we have history with them pal, it's always tight even if it's a blowout scoreboard it was always fire in the 2nd game, we have played against Real Madrid 22 times and we have more wins more goals, in the knock out phase we're tied five qualifications for each one but they NEVER won at Munich, never not even a single draw and they are coming here smashing us like we're nothing? With the defensive line starting to circle of mid... Sorry I can't have that.

There many factors that Guardiola isn't so much appreciated among Bayern fans, he is a fantastic coach but a stubborn one, we got humiliated two times against the two big opponents of ours in Europe while we eliminated them when we faced them before, his tactical overhaul didn't work = his fault, I can't help it as much as I'd like to but he didn't help the team when it mattered the most, mind that he was the highest-paid coach in the world maybe(Europe sure) you're weak with many injuries against a hot/in form Barcelona and his plan was to start with 3 defenders, high pressing against MSN while Rafinha was one of the defenders in the first 20min. if it wasn't for Neuer... don't even want to think about it...

He is a great tactician when it comes to offense, maybe the best but you need to work on the small details in the defensive area too when you coach at the absolute highest level, period! Is a coincidence that his teams are always(!) conceding embarrassing goals? It's a coincidence that quality players are having so many brain-farts and individual errors? No man it's not a coincidence it's too much data and less defensive tactics.

Leaving the Bernabaeu without a goal was the real embarrassment but after those two Ramos headers the team looked bereft of confidence, we had to chase the game and Pep couldn't have played it more conservative if he wanted to. Bayern had to press high and put pressure on R.Madrid at that point so no surprise the floodgates started opening.

I agree the 3 man defense vs Barca was risk butting was working for more than 2/3 of the match with Barca scoring at 77', 80', 90'+4. Lack of being clinical in front of goal lost is that match, if we went into half time with those two goals Pep tells the team to stay tight and we walk away.

I agree that Pep seems to overlook the defensive side of the game and it was frustrating to watch especially after Heyneckes was the complete opposite but I still think too much blame is shifted towards Pep. I think certain players failed to stand up and be counted and it's weird no one ever talks about the players who lets us down in those matches. Imagine if it was Gomez who missed those chances at the Nou Camp? I don't think MUTU would ever unlock the Gomez thread again after a shit storm like that.

It also could be im more generous in my evaluations than most of you but when I think about those games the score lines dont reflect what I saw even if Pep let R.Madrid destroy us at home. Don't get me wrong those ties made my stomach churn as much as any fan but the things I will never excuse in Pep's time here were those goals conceded a Juve and Saul vs Atletico, it was clear to me that with Pep we lost that defensive discipline that got us to two finals in a row. I'm glad with Carlo we're not focused on getting into shoot outs but just getting the right result.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby shpati_L1 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:31 am

Firefox1234 wrote:I agree the 3 man defense vs Barca was risk butting was working for more than 2/3 of the match with Barca scoring at 77', 80', 90'+4.


If I remember correctly Pep changed to a 4 at the back ten minutes in after watching Suarez get 1 vs 1 with Neuer every single Barca action.

Still, I don't want to see a Bayern with that kind of defensive strategy ever again.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:39 am

shpati_L1 wrote:
Firefox1234 wrote:I agree the 3 man defense vs Barca was risk butting was working for more than 2/3 of the match with Barca scoring at 77', 80', 90'+4.


If I remember correctly Pep changed to a 4 at the back ten minutes in after watching Suarez get 1 vs 1 with Neuer every single Barca action.

Still, I don't want to see a Bayern with that kind of defensive strategy ever again.


but that three men defense consisted Rafinha as RCB :evil: http://www.barcablaugranes.com/2015/5/6 ... ed-lineups

with that line up he could have gone with at least Rafinha Boateng Benatia Bernat with Lahm Alonso Basti in midfield Thiag behind Muller and Lewa
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby shpati_L1 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:41 am

LCB actually.
We should stop. It only gets worse :P
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby raz25 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:33 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:Pep gets waaaaaaay too much stick for the fixtures vs Barca and R.Madrid...that second leg vs R.Madrid was a lot of bad luck in my opinion. Who here could have guessed Ramos would score two headers? Is it Pep's fault that Bayern have been shitty at set pieces? Is it Pep's fault Robbery couldn't make it for the Nou Camp? People really have short memories of those two matches especially the away leg at the Nou Camp, that game was close until Barca scored garbage time goals after Bayern lost their composure. If Lewa(who was having a bad season that year) and Muller put those two early chances how different would it be if we went back to the Allianz with two away goals? Is it Pep's fault Muller missed his PK to send us to the final past A.Madrid?

I know this is all "what ifs" but hearing people talk about those fixtures would make someone think we were played off the pitch. The pieces didn't fall our way those times that football, shit happens! I kno as a manager you take all the credit and all the blame but some of the criticism makes me feel like we lost to some lower league side and David Moyes was the manager.

The Spanish giants are world class and no game vs them is a gimme, even Muller said in an interview its 50/50 when they play those sides. There is a good reason the board was keen on keeping here. The one knock I have against Pep is we lost our defensive discipline, those goals we conceded vs Juve and vs A.Madrid in the away leg were disgraceful but overall I enjoyed Pep's time here...


Of course the board was keen on keeping him. As I said 3 SFs in 3 years is a great financial and sporting success for the club. Arsenal's board are also/have been keen on keeping Wenger all these years because of the financial stability he was bringing the club. Pep was bringing even more assets: he draws a lot of attention from the media and is very attractive to players around the world. I don't think we would have got Thiago if it weren't for him.

It's just the way we lost those ties. PunkCapitalist summed it up well, we were shit while we were playing away. People don't have short memory that's why we are still discussing those games. It is indeed Pep's fault that we were shit at set pieces. It's a big part of football so it should be perfected accordingly. In fact, in the upcoming tie against Madrid, avoiding a brace scored by Ramos should be top priority :).

Against Barca, you can give Pep a lot of excuses. If Barca were to lose 5 of their best players in one of the ties, they possibly wouldn't have made it through, I agree. I still think Pep should take some of the blame for the big injury crisis, or at least for not having a backup winger other than Weisser. You can also go the route of blaming the players for managing to neutralize the match (yeah, that's all we did, we weren't dangerous and thank Neuer for saving our asses) for an impressive 75 minutes long period, fine. What about the 2nd leg? After Benatia opened the score, Barca just had tap the gas pedal and immediately made it 2-1, game over. Pep never had an answer for that Barca side, which is a shame considering he knows the club inside out.

Against Atletico, we were indeed very close, I'm not blaming him too much. But, I believe benching Muller and Ribery in the 1st leg, was beyond ridiculous. How can you bench the 2 best players that we have at dismantling defenses? I remember Saul scored very early in the game, Pep should have made some substitutions at the half time, after all, we knew that Atletico never conceded more than 2 goals that season, and we were vulnerable against counter-attacking teams, we desperately needed an away goal. Don't agree with me? Muller and Ribery played the whole 90 minutes in the return leg. All in all, if the games against Barca and Real were even remotely as close as the tie against Madrid, I would be all for that Pep love. Being forced to live in the shoes of an Arsenal fan was no fun at all.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby PunkCapitalist » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:35 pm

I find it very interesting that Pep-lead team's fans seem to blame finishing for their failures. Both us and Shitty's. ATM the oily fans are blaming the finishing for their disqualification from the CL (it definitely had nothing to do with conceding 10 goals in 2 matches lol), the defeat against Chelski and, in general, their defeats and draws.

There must be something about Guardiola that makes attackers worst at finishing. Maybe too many opposition defenders packed on the box, maybe the possession-obsession and unwillingness to lose it, or maybe the insistence on walking he ball to the net. Inaccuracy before goal is not a valid excuse for managers, IMO, getting more and better quality chances and having his players take them is also part of his job.

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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby #12 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:39 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:The home leg vs R.Madrid was unacceptable but those two early headers were debilitating...it was a big ask for the team to claw there way back especially since we didn't score an away goal. In my opinion that debacle was 80% on the players and obviously Pep would take the blame....


Erm... IIRC we played 90 mins at Madrid and were dangerous ONCE!

You speak of a close tie vs. Barca? Dude, they could've done practice shots on the Sendlinger Tor that day and they would've missed 90% - and Neuer was a beast that day - so I gotta wonder WHO keeps forgetting things here
We had three shit away performances ins Spain that all looked exactly the same, we occasionally got lucky and had an opportunity (Götze at Madrid, Lewa at Barcelona, Javi header at Madrid) - but still, we were awful! And people need to admit it!
And this squad is so damn dangerous, it's not enough... We fail to score at Madrid? Ancelotti will get shit too!
Someone, fire that Italian **** already! I don't care who, I don't care how much it costs or who'll be the next coach - just make sure he's gone and he stays gone!!!
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby aterford » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:44 pm

#12 wrote: We fail to score at Madrid? Ancelotti will get shit too!



I can already guarantee you if we lose the tie to Madrid you will hear "Pep destroyed Bayern, that's why Carlo didn't win" or some other form of placing the blame on Pep more than you will hear blame directed towards Carlo.

In the eyes of many here, Pep can do no right and anyone who's not-Pep (C.A.) can do no wrong.

I love Carlo, but you'd be kidding yourself if you honestly think people would criticize an Ancelotti CL elimination the same way they did towards Pep.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Firefox1234 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:46 pm

aterford wrote:
#12 wrote: We fail to score at Madrid? Ancelotti will get shit too!



I can already guarantee you if we lose the tie to Madrid you will hear "Pep destroyed Bayern, that's why Carlo didn't win" or some other form of placing the blame on Pep more than you will hear blame directed towards Carlo.

In the eyes of many here, Pep can do no right and anyone who's not-Pep (C.A.) can do no wrong.

I love Carlo, but you'd be kidding yourself if you honestly think people would criticize an Ancelotti CL elimination the same way they did towards Pep.

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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby JANCKER » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:42 am

Maybe because no one considers a failure a success... Carlo doesn't have fanboys to portray everything as a success. If you want to overpraise then get ready to hear the same amount of nasty... balance.
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Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby #12 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:38 am

Nah I would (we're beating them! So it's just hypothetical! ) be furious as well seeing as they're not really in good form or playing a good season...

And Guardiola didn't "destroy" Bayern, that's shit! We still stand proud!
What he did though was "waste away" (he was not unsuccessful, but he missed at least one CL to be a success...) 3 years of time with the strongest squad in club history at his disposal...
Someone, fire that Italian **** already! I don't care who, I don't care how much it costs or who'll be the next coach - just make sure he's gone and he stays gone!!!
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:05 am

#12 wrote:Nah I would (we're beating them! So it's just hypothetical! ) be furious as well seeing as they're not really in good form or playing a good season...

And Guardiola didn't "destroy" Bayern, that's shit! We still stand proud!
What he did though was "waste away" (he was not unsuccessful, but he missed at least one CL to be a success...) 3 years of time with the strongest squad in club history at his disposal...

Ha! But just look at #12 being optimistic about Carlo! This is a major turn! Hahaha

It's nice to have the positivity back, the first half of the season got ugly at a point :)

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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:02 am

Bundesliga isn't a feat.

It's the same price or less as winning ligue 1 or serie a. Bayern playing the worse football in like 5 years is already winning the league and more than 5 games ahead of Dortmund.

You can take Thiago, alaba, Lewandowski, Robben, Ribery, 2 cbs and even vidal and bayern would still win the league with

Muller
Costa-Coman
Sanches-Kimmich
Alonso
Bernat-Boateng-Benatia-Lahm
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Roonzil » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:35 am

Thiagoalcantara wrote:Bundesliga isn't a feat.

It's the same price or less as winning ligue 1 or serie a. Bayern playing the worse football in like 5 years is already winning the league and more than 5 games ahead of Dortmund.

You can take Thiago, alaba, Lewandowski, Robben, Ribery, 2 cbs and even vidal and bayern would still win the league with

Muller
Costa-Coman
Sanches-Kimmich
Alonso
Bernat-Boateng-Benatia-Lahm
neuer


Pretty sure you're forgetting last season's Dortmund team before Tuchel
chose to prioritise Europa League and failed...




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