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Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby aterford » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:38 am

Roonzil wrote:Interestingly....Bayern official accounts haven't send him a Happy Birthday today.


Bayern USA's official account RT'ed a birthday message, but looks like that's as good as it gets so far..
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby tflags » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:00 pm

aterford wrote:
Roonzil wrote:Interestingly....Bayern official accounts haven't send him a Happy Birthday today.


Bayern USA's official account RT'ed a birthday message, but looks like that's as good as it gets so far..


Interesting observation nonetheless.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Pelin » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:20 pm

He destroyed us, we didn't win CL in the last 3 years, while we should have won at least 1 CL during this term. This guy gifted 3 CL's to Spanish teams. l assume we should be like this. Pep, thanks. You destroyed us really well, happy B-day Pep.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Jorge » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:37 pm

Pelin wrote:He destroyed us, we didn't win CL in the last 3 years, while we should have won at least 1 CL during this term. This guy gifted 3 CL's to Spanish teams. l assume we should be like this. Pep, thanks. You destroyed us really well, happy B-day Pep.


Personally not winning the CL is not on top of my list on why he was a failure, it would have been nice to win it and all the right conditions existed for him to -as you said- at least grab one in 3 years; but being humiliated by the Spanish teams, the teams that he knew the most and what looked to be the only thing standing on his way proved that he was clueless.

Then you put it in the context of the efforts to turn Bayern into a global brand which had an effect on how many long time loyal fans felt about the club, and Pep had a lot to do with this. Guardiola was the first coach in Bayern's history that fielded -with the exception of the goalkeeper- a whole non-German team; and it got so ridiculous that many Bayern fans, right on this forum, still claimed that Bayern's identity was not under assault. I can't even remember a coach that fielded a Bayern team that did not include at least one Bavarian or homegrown player.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Coman » Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:18 pm

Me neither about a CL winning.

Problem is in 3 years I never felt Bayern capable to knock out without a lot problem (Juve) a big european side.

We saw it against Real, Barcelona, Atletico and Juve.
GK : Neuer, Früchtl
RB : Semedo, Rafinha
CB : Boateng, Hummels, Süle, Martinez
LB : Alaba, Ghoulam
CM : Kimmich, Vidal, Thiago, Sanches, Rudy
AM : Müller, Thiago, Sanchez
RW : Robben, Coman
LW : Sanchez, Ribéry, Coman
CF : Lewandowski, Sanchez
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:07 pm

Jorge wrote:Then you put it in the context of the efforts to turn Bayern into a global brand which had an effect on how many long time loyal fans felt about the club, and Pep had a lot to do with this. Guardiola was the first coach in Bayern's history that fielded -with the exception of the goalkeeper- a whole non-German team; and it got so ridiculous that many Bayern fans, right on this forum, still claimed that Bayern's identity was not under assault. I can't even remember a coach that fielded a Bayern team that did not include at least one Bavarian or homegrown player.

Just curious, do you remember which game this was? I don't recall it and it's hard to imagine we benched Boateng, Muller, Lahm, Schweinsteiger in the same game.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby aterford » Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:51 am

Pelin wrote:He destroyed us, we didn't win CL in the last 3 years, while we should have won at least 1 CL during this term. This guy gifted 3 CL's to Spanish teams. l assume we should be like this. Pep, thanks. You destroyed us really well, happy B-day Pep.



Ridiculous. Destroyed us? Get real. Sure, we didn't win the UCL, but he left Bayern in better shape than it has EVER been in.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby JANCKER » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:36 am

Leaving it as a retirement home is the best shape Bayern has ever been in? lol He wasted 3 precious years of a unique generation. Ancelotti has 1-2 years left to squeeze from it and maybe not even that much.
Irreparable... the CL will be even harder to win in the next years.
And it's not only that he didn't win the CL, in my book LvG's legacy will always be bigger than Pep's.

He took over Bayern in the best shape ever and left it as a retirement home; choking on the first Spanish opposition we faced, and luckily we faced them only on the semis so it was some kind of an 'achievement'.

When you say 'he left Bayern in better shape than it has EVER been in' you should have this picture in mind...

Image

It would've been nice to prove that we can win stuff outside Germany too, making our domestic dominance look natural... and with what team then if not with our best team ever?
Neuer - Boateng, Martínez, Hummels - Kimmich, Thiago, Alaba - Bernardeschi, Müller, Coman - Lewandowski
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby aterford » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:44 am

Retirement home? What's that even supposed to mean?

We now have a bigger global influence than ever. We've got more draw in transfers than we've ever had. Our financial situation is indisputably better than ever. Bayern's 'brand' is bigger than ever. We have more dominance in Germany than ever before...Dortmund's team last year was statistically their best ever and even they lost by ten points. Players like Boateng, Alaba, Thiago, Kimmich, and even guys like Lahm, Javi, Vidal, Neuer, and Lewandowski made massive strides under Pep's tutelage. I can't think of a player on the team currently who wasn't better at the end of Pep's tenure than at the start of it (Perhaps Ribery/Robben notwithstanding, but even Pep cannot turn back time). Even without winning the UCL, we were easily one of the most dominant teams in the competition. Under Pep everyone was every bit as scared to face Bayern as they were under Jupp and then some. The fact of the matter is that for the first two years we faced two of the best players of all time and two of the best attacking lineups of all time. In the third we were easily the better team in the semi-final and lost solely because of away goals (never mind the fact that Pep's gameplan was fine, players like Lewy, Müller, etc all were wholly unable to finish when given the chance. Had our players been able to finish their chances we would win that tie easily. Can't blame the coach for what was obviously player errors) Perhaps Pep did not field the best formation or lineup (not to mention that he NEVER had as healthy of a squad as Jupp had at his disposal but that's another point) but if you can look at the past three seasons and point to three matches out of his entire tenure and say "yep this was a failure" then by that standard you will never, ever see a coach who isn't a failure. 2012/13 was a truly remarkable year and quite honestly it would be simply astounding if ANY coach were able to match it.

If you bought into the "Pep must win the UCL or his time is a failure" that is your own doing. Bayern did not start that narrative nor did they perpetuate it. That is simply the product of fans who refuse to accept that literally every possible circumstance went our way in 2012/13 and cannot comprehend that to expect things to fall in place like that again is radically unlikely. Even Uli himself said that Pep was the final phase in installing the "Bayern style".

So, let's recap.
-Bigger global presence, transfer influence, and Bayern brand than ever before
-Better financial situation than ever
-Every key player saw improvement
-Continued run of dominant form in UCL even without trophy
-Better domestically than ever
-Put in a position to win for years to come

I have yet to find a quantifiable metric that would suggest we are not better off now than we were three years ago. And no, "retirement home" is not quantifiable.

"We have NEVER played better than we have under Pep. We have often been successful, but rarely called beautiful. Under Pep, everyone raved at our football" --Karl-Heinz Rummenigge

You know, fine. You can say Pep's time at Bayern wasn't a success, fine. I disagree, but that's okay. But the notion that he "destroyed us" or "turned us into a retirement home" is just flat out ridiculous and wholly unfounded.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Coman » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:03 am

JANCKER wrote:Leaving it as a retirement home is the best shape Bayern has ever been in? lol He wasted 3 precious years of a unique generation. Ancelotti has 1-2 years left to squeeze from it and maybe not even that much.
Irreparable... the CL will be even harder to win in the next years.
And it's not only that he didn't win the CL, in my book LvG's legacy will always be bigger than Pep's.

He took over Bayern in the best shape ever and left it as a retirement home; choking on the first Spanish opposition we faced, and luckily we faced them only on the semis so it was some kind of an 'achievement'.

When you say 'he left Bayern in better shape than it has EVER been in' you should have this picture in mind...

Image

It would've been nice to prove that we can win stuff outside Germany too, making our domestic dominance look natural... and with what team then if not with our best team ever?

And don't forget without a big luck we would have been out against Juve
GK : Neuer, Früchtl
RB : Semedo, Rafinha
CB : Boateng, Hummels, Süle, Martinez
LB : Alaba, Ghoulam
CM : Kimmich, Vidal, Thiago, Sanches, Rudy
AM : Müller, Thiago, Sanchez
RW : Robben, Coman
LW : Sanchez, Ribéry, Coman
CF : Lewandowski, Sanchez
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:37 pm

aterford wrote:You know, fine. You can say Pep's time at Bayern wasn't a success, fine. I disagree, but that's okay. But the notion that he "destroyed us" or "turned us into a retirement home" is just flat out ridiculous and wholly unfounded.

It's useless trying. Neither side will ever convince the other. ;) Especially now that City are doing so badly. But I repeat, what he does with other teams does not have any bearing on what he achieved with Bayern.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby envagyokazapad » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:50 pm

aterford wrote:Players like Boateng, Alaba, Thiago, Kimmich, and even guys like Lahm, Javi, Vidal, Neuer, and Lewandowski made massive strides under Pep's tutelage. I can't think of a player on the team currently who wasn't better at the end of Pep's tenure than at the start of it (Perhaps Ribery/Robben notwithstanding, but even Pep cannot turn back time).


What?
Alaba was no better at the end of Pep's tenure than under Jupp...Javi was injured the majority of the times and still IS WORSE than he was during our treble winning season even though he has significantly improved lately...Lahm and Ribery are clearly worse (of course you can't turn back time and can't pin this on Pep - but claiming the opposite is just laughable)

Vidal was already world class to begin with and was perhaps one of our best and most reliable players during the key parts of last season...but he has been just like that for several seasons now.

Boateng, Neuer and Kimmich improved noticeably, with Boateng being the biggest improver. That one is on Pep imo! But to say the entire squad is better...just what?

So, let's recap.
-Bigger global presence, transfer influence, and Bayern brand than ever before <- this was already true after the treble winning season. Pep's character sure had some to do with it, but putting this all on him is just biased. Management also played a big part in this!
-Better financial situation than ever <- nothing to do with Pep. Bayern were already very strong financially upon his arrival.
-Every key player saw improvement <- it's just not true.
-Continued run of dominant form in UCL even without trophy <- during his first 2 seasons I can hardly recall any acceptable performances during the knockout stage. Even during his third season we almost got eliminated against Juve. Not a single chance against Barca and Real - for me that's no better than a "given" based on the quality of our squad itself.
-Better domestically than ever <- this one I agree is true. Pep is just an extremely good "league coach" if there is such thing.
-Put in a position to win for years to come <- we already were in that position after Jupp's departure.


Don't get me wrong I'm not a Pep hater and I don't think he destroyed or wasted anything. I think there's a chance Jupp wouldn't have been more successful had he stayed longer. Perhaps no other coach would have been - I still find your post rather biased in the opposite direction.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Jorge » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:42 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
Jorge wrote: (...)Guardiola was the first coach in Bayern's history that fielded -with the exception of the goalkeeper- a whole non-German team (...)

Just curious, do you remember which game this was? I don't recall it and it's hard to imagine we benched Boateng, Muller, Lahm, Schweinsteiger in the same game.


March 2nd 2016 versus Mainz.
Line-ups [source]


Not sure why it is hard to imagine though.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:49 pm

Jorge wrote:Not sure why it is hard to imagine though.

Because no matter how much people say Guardiola was obsessed with Spanish players, all of them were key players for his teams. Basti had already left by this match, but Lahm and Boateng aren't even on the bench. So probably injured?
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby aterford » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:44 pm

envagyokazapad wrote:Don't get me wrong I'm not a Pep hater and I don't think he destroyed or wasted anything. I think there's a chance Jupp wouldn't have been more successful had he stayed longer. Perhaps no other coach would have been - I still find your post rather biased in the opposite direction.


Fair enough, I am not looking to get dragged into another drawn out argument about Pep.

However when we have people saying "Bayern didn't wish Pep a happy birthday because he destroyed us" it's simply ridiculous.

For starters, Bayern's official Facebook page DID wish Pep a happy birthday. Furthermore, it's no secret that Bayern's management were doing everything in their power to try and get him to stay at Bayern longer. I think it's safe to say they didn't think that Pep ruined Bayern.

Anyways. Not getting dragged back into this. To each his own.
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