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Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby tflags » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:04 pm

Coman wrote:Maybe because Conte adapts his tactics to the league and the players he has.

Plus, the fact he doesn't play Europe.


He shouldn't have won the one on one. City missed some pretty good chances while Chelsea got a goal from whatever attack they made. Just say'n.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:08 pm

tflags wrote:
Coman wrote:Maybe because Conte adapts his tactics to the league and the players he has.

Plus, the fact he doesn't play Europe.


He shouldn't have won the one on one. City missed some pretty good chances while Chelsea got a goal from whatever attack they made. Just say'n.

That happened to us as well vs BMG and against some other wise coaches.
Pep never learns.

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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Ziklitschli » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:28 pm

tflags wrote:
Coman wrote:Maybe because Conte adapts his tactics to the league and the players he has.

Plus, the fact he doesn't play Europe.


He shouldn't have won the one on one. City missed some pretty good chances while Chelsea got a goal from whatever attack they made. Just say'n.


Happens all the time to Pep teams, which would suggest it's his system giving opposing attackers all the time they need. On the other hand, his attackers have so little time that they need to be in almost perfect position, balance etc or be expert goalscorers from wierd angles or situations/ world class dribblers. It tends to produce loads of half chances pumping up the shots ratio but multiple goals rather against bad/ mediocre defenses. It's the flaw that he doesn't seem to recognise or is unwilling to correct, both making him a bad manager especialy for CL where he will get punished time after time. He tends to look dominant though which produces statements like yours but no, he didn't deserve to win. He deserved to get beaten badly for his arrogance, stubborness and recklessness.

It seems to me now that the more he forces his philosophy on City, the more they loose. They will learn in 3 years time maybe though but then he will go elsewhere leaving the footballers crippled to use for any other system, which will be probably be used by a fresh breed of his fanboys and hipster analyst as a proof of how esential Pep was for the given team.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Coman » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:33 pm

That's the problem with space. He himself said it to French TV who own EPL rights : "I like to see my team attacks in little space and defends in the big one".

That's ridiculous.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby MUTU » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:03 am

JANCKER wrote:
MUTU wrote:Every time Man City lose, Pep Guardiola loses reputation and strength-perception. The worse the perception of Guardiola is, the better Bayern looks.


Not exactly what he himself tried to state here... not sure if he's backing 'the PL is too hard, Messi would choke'. :-k

Image

Weird he didn't mention how much did it take to Mancini.

I said give the man more time and preferably more millions to spend, I wasn't wrong.

Or how much it will (likely) take Conte.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:19 am

ramsej84 wrote:
tflags wrote:
Coman wrote:Maybe because Conte adapts his tactics to the league and the players he has.

Plus, the fact he doesn't play Europe.


He shouldn't have won the one on one. City missed some pretty good chances while Chelsea got a goal from whatever attack they made. Just say'n.

That happened to us as well vs BMG and against some other wise coaches.
Pep never learns.

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I didn't watch City-Chelsea but if it's as tflags said, there's nothing to learn. He did his part to win the game, the players didn't.


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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:33 am

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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby tflags » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:30 am

My God that video showed all the game highlights... :lol:
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:23 pm

I watched the match. From the 30th min onwards.
MC missed two good chances so what? They were caught on various occasions... May they keep it up. Please note I have been anti MC ever since not cause there is Pep with them.
On the other hand I get the feeling that some here or some former members of this forum became City Fan Boys as from Jan 2016

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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Ziklitschli » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:38 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:I didn't watch City-Chelsea but if it's as tflags said, there's nothing to learn. He did his part to win the game, the players didn't.


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Quite a statement after not watching the match. Anyway City were so utterly dominant that their only goal was Chelsea's own goal, they also crushed the blues 14:10 in shots and anihilated them 5:4 in shots on target. Also De Bruyne had a situation in full sprint which counts as a goal when it comes to Guardiola, apparently.

But look at that conversion rate! Poor, unlucky Guardiola.

Let's look at another match though, Leicester. 78 - 22 possesion City, quite something to say the least. 19 - 11 shots City, not bad. 6:4 shots on target Leicester, hm. Then, 4:2 goals Leicester. Again, conversion rate and it happens time and time again.

But must be players and Guardiola should have won I guess.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:19 pm

Ziklitschli wrote:But must be players and Guardiola should have won I guess.

If you create loads of "good chances" (quoting tflags), then it's clear the tactics are working. If you don't score enough from those chances, the players must be misfiring. Kind of like how people blamed players like Robben rather than the coach after 2012...

I don't think you need to watch the game or any game really to understand that. Whether or not this particular game was a case of the tactics not being good enough or not, I can't tell. I merely said that what I said holds "if it's as tflags said">
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Ziklitschli » Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:51 pm

[quote="FCBayernMunchen"][quote="Ziklitschli"]But must be players and Guardiola should have won I guess.
[/quote]
If you create loads of "good chances" (quoting tflags), then it's clear the tactics are working. If you don't score enough from those chances, the players must be misfiring. Kind of like how people blamed players like Robben rather than the coach after 2012...

I don't think you need to watch the game or any game really to understand that. Whether or not this particular game was a case of the tactics not being good enough or not, I can't tell. I merely said that what I said holds "if it's as tflags said">[/quote]

Sure yeah I get what you mean but what is a "good chance" is a whole branch of science heh. Anyway tactics is also defence, not to mention that this particular Guardiola loss scenario happens too damn lot and is a systemic fault. He demands too much, from attackers to be fast and precise in a swarmed penalty area and from defenders to chase world class strikers/ wingers when outnumbered. The system will ultimately fail him, it's detached from reality.

I read the excuse of players being not good enough for/ failing Guardiola all the time. What are the actual players good enough? Two Messis two Iniestas two Xavis and four Puyols I guess and Neuer as GK. What form would the defenders need to stop world class atackers in his system? With players good enough for Guardiola, assuming those exist outside top 5 passers, anyone could win anything with any formation I guess and his system still wouldn't be the optimal choice anyway.

Then you can read the crazy bastard statement-child of all the bs, the grand bs, the cosmic blabber of how "Bayern players only looked world class because of Guardiola". It's a testament to the players inteligence and skill that they almost made this football utopia work, and it's only thanks to Bayern players that Guardiola looked world class (just imagine not Neuer At GK!). It's time to stop the excuses for the good ol' fraud Pep because those are not only illogical but also it all ends as an insult to our players.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby PunkCapitalist » Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:32 pm

I agree to a great degree on Guardiola demanding perfect player-robots and all of that, which leads to Pep teams giving away high quality chances to the opposition.

But there is no denying it regardless, he is a fantastic coach when you have a top squad to match him. We pretty much had that except in attack. Our defense and keeper were a Pep wet dream (except maybe for Dante/Benatia). Our MF was only second to Barça's. Our attackers are the ones who proved no to be a good match, which led him to deviate drastically from his thing.

I can't stress this enough. Last season with Costa and Coman putting in crosses for two strikers... That's pretty much as far from Pep ideology as it gets. If he had had Ribery and Robben fit at the crucial times, maybe he would have stuck closer to his ideology. Müller was also a huge problem for him cause he was not a good fit to his ideology and yet HAD to play.

The only player that looked vastly better than he is because of Pep is Costa (also Coman). I'm going to leave that at that. The rest of our squad is top class; some matched Pep's rigid ideology, some didn't, that's life.

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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby tflags » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:16 pm

Ziklitschli wrote:Quite a statement after not watching the match. Anyway City were so utterly dominant that their only goal was Chelsea's own goal, they also crushed the blues 14:10 in shots and anihilated them 5:4 in shots on target. Also De Bruyne had a situation in full sprint which counts as a goal when it comes to Guardiola, apparently.
But look at that conversion rate! Poor, unlucky Guardiola.
Let's look at another match though, Leicester. 78 - 22 possesion City, quite something to say the least. 19 - 11 shots City, not bad. 6:4 shots on target Leicester, hm. Then, 4:2 goals Leicester. Again, conversion rate and it happens time and time again.
But must be players and Guardiola should have won I guess.


Anyhow, a hateless opinion, by ESPN. :P

"The tactical match-ups featured Conte keeping his 3-4-3 and Guardiola wheeling out the 3-2-2-3-ish system he often uses at home. Such unusual formations looked likely to trigger defensive shakiness at both ends, but instead the teams marked each other man to man, making it rare to see numerical overloads. Some of the chances early on were instead down to simple long passes.

One exception was the improvised role of Kevin De Bruyne, who played as a virtual right-back at times, even if it was Jesus Navas' cross that made Gary Cahill shin the ball into his own net. Sergio Aguero should have made it 2-0 and De Bruyne also had a glaring miss, before Diego Costa led two deadly counterattacks.

That forced City to risk more and Eden Hazard eventually made it three later on, until an unsavoury melee ensued. Guardiola had right to feel aggrieved with his side's wastefulness, while Conte deserved credit for taking advantage."
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Bentonomo » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:14 pm

Guardiola system make people believe he is always in control the truth his system always makes the oposition to have the clearest oportunities of goal.

Maybe only with Messi he could be succesful again.
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