You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Discussions about the former / present players & staff, and their personal life. Was a player fined for speeding? Did a former player become a coach? Find it all here.
 

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby rthebest » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:05 pm

bayern1982 wrote:Pep can't even win the Sueprcup, that's how bad he is. Won his trophies with Heynckess' squad by beating Cheslski on a miracle Martinez goal in the Super Cup and were unimpressive in the CWC; just squeaking by. Last season's Deutschmeister is his individual achievement even though it should be expected with squad he's given and we're so much better than every other team. Humiliating exits in the Champions League are what still hurt the most. Defend Pep all you want, but he'll be gone at the end of the season and you're just wasting your time. Until he proves himself with Bayern, I will remain critical.


I don't say he doesn't do any mistakes but I see next season , he is gone , Klopp is here and we finish 10th.
User avatar
rthebest
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 789
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:45 am
National Flag:
Canada
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 258 times
Gender: Male

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Reinhart » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:53 pm

He'll probably decide to leave and then win the treble and then this time next year we'll all be crying about it.
User avatar
Reinhart
Yeah, now I'm talking!
 
Years of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:03 pm
National Flag:
Canada
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 58 times
Gender: Male

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby #12 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:23 pm

Not gonna happen... ;)
Someone, fire that Italian **** already! I don't care who, I don't care how much it costs or who'll be the next coach - just make sure he's gone and he stays gone!!!
User avatar
#12
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 8767
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 1:31 pm
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 359 times
Been thanked: 2458 times
Gender: Male

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby FCB general » Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:55 am

Image


Do [some] players under Guardiola?


If nothing changes in future on better(hasn't changed in the last 2 years significantly), I don't see how he'll stay as Bayern coach. But it's a fact that some of the players can't fulfill Guardiola's demands despite their already proven-class.
Cada loco con su tema.
User avatar
FCB general
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 6528
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:11 pm
Location: Croatia
National Flag:
Red Cross
Has thanked: 2650 times
Been thanked: 2869 times
Gender: Male

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby S4k4zulu » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:55 am

rthebest wrote:
I don't say he doesn't do any mistakes but I see next season , he is gone , Klopp is here and we finish 10th.


I think we will finish 9th...
But if the fans are happy after that, who cares tight.


Sent from my grandmama's basement
User avatar
S4k4zulu
Yeah, now I'm talking!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:11 am
National Flag:
United States of America
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Gender: Male

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby ottackon » Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:09 am

Image
User avatar
ottackon
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 6130
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:05 am
Location: Casablanca
National Flag:
Morocco
Has thanked: 1830 times
Been thanked: 3188 times
Gender: Male

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby #12 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:59 pm

Well, because, apparently, time stands still in Guardiola world - improvement is not a factor... ;)
Someone, fire that Italian **** already! I don't care who, I don't care how much it costs or who'll be the next coach - just make sure he's gone and he stays gone!!!
User avatar
#12
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 8767
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 1:31 pm
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 359 times
Been thanked: 2458 times
Gender: Male

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby endrity » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:19 pm

We let one brilliant coach, who had contributed just as much if not more in Bayern's history, go in 2011.

And we let LVG go because by the end of it he was too stuck up to change and in order to prove everyone wrong he started making stupid decisions all around the pitch (btw, I think he is headed that way with Man U, but we'll see). I see no reason why we can't do the same with Guardiola as well. Right now his coaching is awful, there is no direction with this team and no improvment. If world-class players like Lahm, Muller, Lewa, Boateng, Schweini, who have won everythign there is to win without him, can't perform what he is asking, than maybe what he is asking is simply undoable.

Also, I can't understand the people that complain about the criticism that Guardiola recieves. This is a fan forum, we come here to discuss our team, we think a coach is doing a bad job, and we talk about it just like we would any other event that is relevant to the club. What else do you expect us to do?

You either defend his decisions or let us be. But to accuse people of some sort of irrational Guardiola hate, it would seem to me to be a case of a deep misunderstanding of what an online forum is supposed to be.
User avatar
endrity
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:22 pm
Has thanked: 600 times
Been thanked: 482 times
Gender: Male

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby nm462272 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:27 pm

endrity wrote:Also, I can't understand the people that complain about the criticism that Guardiola recieves. This is a fan forum, we come here to discuss our team, we think a coach is doing a bad job, and we talk about it just like we would any other event that is relevant to the club. What else do you expect us to do?

You either defend his decisions or let us be. But to accuse people of some sort of irrational Guardiola hate, it would seem to me to be a case of a deep misunderstanding of what an online forum is supposed to be.


Some criticism is founded, some is not. Just as people are allowed to criticize everything, people are allowed to debate them.
Des interessiert mi ois ned, der Scheißdreck. Weltmeister samma! Den Pott hamma! Den scheiß goldener Schuh kannst da hinter d’Ohr’n schmiern! - Mia San Mia

Euer Hass ist unser Stolz!
User avatar
nm462272
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 2851
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:54 am
Location: München/Atlanta/New York City
National Flag:
United States of America
Has thanked: 2678 times
Been thanked: 1221 times
Gender: Male

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby endrity » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:36 pm

nm462272 wrote:
endrity wrote:Also, I can't understand the people that complain about the criticism that Guardiola recieves. This is a fan forum, we come here to discuss our team, we think a coach is doing a bad job, and we talk about it just like we would any other event that is relevant to the club. What else do you expect us to do?

You either defend his decisions or let us be. But to accuse people of some sort of irrational Guardiola hate, it would seem to me to be a case of a deep misunderstanding of what an online forum is supposed to be.


Some criticism is founded, some is not. Just as people are allowed to criticize everything, people are allowed to debate them.


Than deal with the criticism. I see a lot of people taking time to write thoughtful post's on what exactly they don't like about Guardiola's decisions. And it also seems like there is a lot of common ground in there.

On the other side I see very few people actually trying to explain or rationalize his decisions but dismiss the criticism as "bitching", or worse as some intolerable action that should not even be on the board.

There are outliers ofcourse, but by and large this is a summary of the Pep thread. If there are people that honestly feel like Guardiola has done a good job, they should go ahead and defend it. But they should stop trying to prevent people from criticizing his work simply because it bothers them, somehow.
User avatar
endrity
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:22 pm
Has thanked: 600 times
Been thanked: 482 times
Gender: Male

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby pyrasur » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:36 pm

There is unfounded criticism of Guardiola that is made up that is distracting from legitimate criticism of his coaching. Stuff like "he doesn't even speak to Götze" diverts from true problems, for example on penalties and set pieces. Even then a lot of the speculation on the set pieces, that we don't practice them, is only speculative.

Even the Lahm at CM issue isn't properly addressed. I think Lahm has a level of influence at Bayern (and at the German national team) that influences the trainers (sometimes leads to them getting fired) but is ignored by fans because the coach gets credit/blame. He's great at CM imo, but Lahm contributes to the problem when he displays indiscipline when being told to play RB, drifting inside whenever he feels like he is being left out of the play.

My criticism of Guardiola is that the mentality of the players remains weak. Some of that is not his fault, i.e. Götze needing to be selected to start despite repeated poor performance. Some of the weakness is his fault. The team too easily loses its confidence and gameplan when something adverse happens. To be honest underperformance has been a problem for years with this group of players, choking in 2012, at the 2012 and 2008 UEFA Euros for the German players. In my opinion 2013 was a fluke year where the team was not really properly challenged by a weak Barcelona that didn't have Messi, and in fact we might have lost the final against Dortmund (continuing a string of losing to them) had Dante been sent off for his challenge on Reus. I don't care, because we deserve to be lucky once in a while, just pointing it out that for how much we've been burned by bad luck under Guardiola, this group has had some good luck that really covered us when we might have deserved to lose.
而剑法的最高境界,则是手中无剑,心中也无剑,是以大胸怀,包容一切。那便是不杀,便是和平。-英雄
User avatar
pyrasur
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 3940
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:05 am
National Flag:
United States of America
Has thanked: 2262 times
Been thanked: 1843 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby #12 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:47 pm

Well, that happens with Guardiola as well... ;)
Also, the final 2013 was a very very deserved win... Dante got a rdiculous yellow card in the first half - so that one doesn't count... YOu could talk about Ribéry, yes, but you would have to include Lewandowski (then Dortmund) and the denied penalty for Müller as well... ;)
And no, I'm not a freak, but the game was on yesterday on Sky Germany... ;)
Someone, fire that Italian **** already! I don't care who, I don't care how much it costs or who'll be the next coach - just make sure he's gone and he stays gone!!!
User avatar
#12
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 8767
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 1:31 pm
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 359 times
Been thanked: 2458 times
Gender: Male

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby endrity » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:52 pm

pyrasur wrote:There is unfounded criticism of Guardiola that is made up that is distracting from legitimate criticism of his coaching. Stuff like "he doesn't even speak to Götze" diverts from true problems, for example on penalties and set pieces. Even then a lot of the speculation on the set pieces, that we don't practice them, is only speculative.

Even the Lahm at CM issue isn't properly addressed. I think Lahm has a level of influence at Bayern (and at the German national team) that influences the trainers (sometimes leads to them getting fired) but is ignored by fans because the coach gets credit/blame. He's great at CM imo, but Lahm contributes to the problem when he displays indiscipline when being told to play RB, drifting inside whenever he feels like he is being left out of the play.

My criticism of Guardiola is that the mentality of the players remains weak. Some of that is not his fault, i.e. Götze needing to be selected to start despite repeated poor performance. Some of the weakness is his fault. The team too easily loses its confidence and gameplan when something adverse happens. To be honest underperformance has been a problem for years with this group of players, choking in 2012, at the 2012 and 2008 UEFA Euros for the German players. In my opinion 2013 was a fluke year where the team was not really properly challenged by a weak Barcelona that didn't have Messi, and in fact we might have lost the final against Dortmund (continuing a string of losing to them) had Dante been sent off for his challenge on Reus. I don't care, because we deserve to be lucky once in a while, just pointing it out that for how much we've been burned by bad luck under Guardiola, this group has had some good luck that really covered us when we might have deserved to lose.


I disagree with some of the points you raise, but this is the type of post I expect from people that disagree with the Guardiola criticism.

For example, I am no huge fan of what Gotze has done here. I think it actually is best for everyone involved if he leaves as I don't expect a sudden reemergence from him. He is what he is for Bayern at this point. He can only rediscover his form and committment somewhere else. But this doesn't mean that Guardiola doesn't play favourites, and unfortunately sometimes that favoritism is directed towards his Spanish players which than leads to other problems. Alonso is clear to see for everyone. Even a good player like Bernat was overplayed last year, which meant that Alaba was constantly being shifted around to fit Bernat in. This has resulted in the familiar problem of Alaba being a bit unsure of his role.

On Lahm, it's clear that he wants to play midfield. He has said so. I disagree on two points though. First, he isn't a great CM, not at this level. He is ok, at best, but that's about it. At least the way I know and play football myself, there is nothing in Lahm as a CM that makes me rate him higher, but I guess we can disagree. On the other hand, no matter his influence he has never been someone that will openly rebel. Low made him play as a RB eventually. Guardiola just shiped out Schweinsteiger, who is arguably even more loved, and has troubles connecting with Muller aparently. He's not going to cave in for Lahm, unless he really believes in his decision. And whatever problems Lahm has as a RB, to me he is still the only elite player we have there, but I won't reopen that discussion here.

I don't think mentality is that much of an issue, these players have won big even when they were not favourites. Yes they lost in 2012, but remember how easy it would have been to cave in the Bernabeu at 2-0 down, or in Manchester at 3-0 down. They won against Argentina in 2010 or Brazil in 2014 when few expected them, no matter how easy that looks to us now.

I think Guardiola has torn apart the team's spine, its monstruous physicality that destroyed everyone in 2013. I remember what Conte said after we beat Juventus in the QF that year. He said he knew Bayern were better technically. But his Juve side were pitbulls who chase and pressure teams to death and he expected to do the same thing to Bayern. What totally surprised him was how much stronger Bayern were physically. Think about it, this is one of Europe's toughest teams who was being totally outclassed at their own game. I have never seen Bayern do that under Guardiola.
User avatar
endrity
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:22 pm
Has thanked: 600 times
Been thanked: 482 times
Gender: Male

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby pyrasur » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:54 pm

#12 wrote:Well, that happens with Guardiola as well... ;)
Also, the final 2013 was a very very deserved win... Dante got a rdiculous yellow card in the first half - so that one doesn't count... YOu could talk about Ribéry, yes, but you would have to include Lewandowski (then Dortmund) and the denied penalty for Müller as well... ;)
And no, I'm not a freak, but the game was on yesterday on Sky Germany... ;)


Exactly. Not gonna see me disagree there. That's why when the breaks fall for us, I'll take 'em. Just saying that we are equally likely to get screwed. Unfortunately sometimes the team has not handled getting the shaft well at all.
而剑法的最高境界,则是手中无剑,心中也无剑,是以大胸怀,包容一切。那便是不杀,便是和平。-英雄
User avatar
pyrasur
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 3940
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:05 am
National Flag:
United States of America
Has thanked: 2262 times
Been thanked: 1843 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby #12 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:03 pm

pyrasur wrote:Exactly. Not gonna see me disagree there. That's why when the breaks fall for us, I'll take 'em. Just saying that we are equally likely to get screwed. Unfortunately sometimes the team has not handled getting the shaft well at all.


True... But that could also bee seen against Dortmund - happens every now and then... And I don't actually blame Guardiola too much for Dortmund...
That'S why I don't expect the treble... But I also don't want to see humiliations like Wolfsburg in January and Barcelona or Real Madrid 2014...

@endrity: really starting to like your posts!
Someone, fire that Italian **** already! I don't care who, I don't care how much it costs or who'll be the next coach - just make sure he's gone and he stays gone!!!
User avatar
#12
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 8767
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 1:31 pm
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 359 times
Been thanked: 2458 times
Gender: Male

PreviousNext

Return to Bayern Player & Staff Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests