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Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Badger » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:06 pm

envagyokazapad wrote:It means that you don't need to be able to do the job better than them to voice your opinion.


Possibly. But when people persist in stating opinions that are contrary to - in this case - Guardiola and KHR, then that cannot be separated from the underlying implication that they feel they know better. At times, such audacity deserves to be opposed and its associated arguments dismantled.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby #12 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:13 pm

Supposed to mean that you can expect something by it... ;)

Sorry for barging in here...

The thing is: To win the Bundesliga with THIS team we don't need (to pay) a Guardiola... Peter Neururer, Michael Skibbe, Bruno Labbadia and HErrmann Gerland could do that as well... ;)
Thanks for nothing, :pep: !!
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby envagyokazapad » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:14 pm

Badger wrote:
envagyokazapad wrote:It means that you don't need to be able to do the job better than them to voice your opinion.


Possibly. But when people persist in stating opinions that are contrary to - in this case - Guardiola and KHR, then that cannot be separated from the underlying implication that they feel they know better. At times, such audacity deserves to be opposed and its associated arguments dismantled.


You may think too much into this. Most of these peeps just feel hurt, because half of our legendary, treble winning team has been sold out over the past two years, and now one of our last club legends is gone. Another one is not being given a one year contract, despite the fact we have no other striker in the squad. You may not think something is wrong, but some people can disagree with that - and it doesn't necessarily mean they feel more competent than anybody.

When you are in a position where you make millions of Euros a year (regardless of your profession), there's obviously a lot of pressure and you'll be under a ton of scrutiny if you ever make a mistake. That's just a nature of things.

I'm pretty sure KHR and Pep saw this coming anyway (I'm more surprised you didn't?).
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Badger » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:16 pm

#12 wrote:Supposed to mean that you can expect something by it... ;)

Sorry for barging in here...

The thing is: To win the Bundesliga with THIS team we don't need (to pay) a Guardiola... Peter Neururer, Michael Skibbe, Bruno Labbadia and HErrmann Gerland could do that as well... ;)


Yes. Manchester United had a similar idea to that when they took on David Moyes.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Badger » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:21 pm

envagyokazapad wrote:You may think too much into this. Most of these peeps just feel hurt, because half of our legendary, treble winning team has been sold out over the past two years, and now one of our last club legends is gone. Another one is not being given a one year contract, despite the fact we have no other striker in the squad. You may not think something is wrong, but some people can disagree with that - and it doesn't necessarily mean they feel more competent than anybody.

When you are in a position where you make millions of Euros a year (regardless of your profession), there's obviously a lot of pressure and you'll be under a ton of scrutiny if you ever make a mistake. That's just a nature of things.

I'm pretty sure KHR and Pep saw this coming anyway (I'm more surprised you didn't?).


With the exception of Manzukic, who seems to have talked his way into trouble, which other players do you think Guardiola and KHR happily let go?
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby envagyokazapad » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:32 pm

It's not that they let them go happily or not (not that we can even tell that from here anyway!). What people see is we had a great team, a bunch of homegrown players, and some others who may not have been homegrown but worked really hard for our success. We had a dream season and won everything. Now Kroos, Schweini, Gustavo, Gomez, Mandzukic, Shaqiri are all gone, with Ribery's and Robben's long term injuries making the picture even worse (and the fact that unless Martinez makes a breakthrough next season he's likely out in the summer too). With Schweini gone all of these smaller (and older) wounds open up (Gomez/Shaq/Mandzu who obviously needed to go). I can't help but feel this is not the same team anymore.

Then add in MW. Some of these people had been here well before Pep got here and there is a chance they would have been here well after Pep will be gone. You brought up Moyes: he failed, but at least he didn't pick the world's best TEAM apart.

And my personal opinion is that Pep actually was happy to see Schweini go, as he couldn't really use him but more or less would have been forced to (by the fans and the TEAM). Even with all of this, that would have been a much stickier situation for him and certainly much harder to handle.

Btw some of these fan reactions are not necessarily rational!
You also need to keep in mind that most people like to complain, but they never actually provide solutions. So again, nothing really surprising about these reactions.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Badger » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:37 pm

What you are describing is nothing more than some people's inability to understand and accept the realities of football. That inability does not deserve any great amount of sympathy.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby ottackon » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:45 pm

I think the team who has played 3 CL finals from 2009 to 2013 needed a renewal and rejuvenation in one way or another. The board seems to have learned the lessons from the collapse that occurred after the CL victory in 2001, and began a gradual change in the squad, this necessarily implies heartbreaking separations but it is the price to pay in order to remain competitive. That being said, one can very much criticize some choices that have been made, but this policy is the right one IMHO.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby pyrasur » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:04 pm

#12 wrote:
FCB general wrote:What's this? Protests against Guardiola and the Asshole? :?


:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Yup... Fans are worried about a loss of identity, already discussed in the Schweini thread... It's not just about him, it's also Müller-Wohlfahrt and Claudio...


We are pissed off that Claudio Pizarro is leaving now? You know what. Yes. At this point, why not? I loves me some caf/bluemoon. :coffee:
Will pass the time until the season starts.
而剑法的最高境界,则是手中无剑,心中也无剑,是以大胸怀,包容一切。那便是不杀,便是和平。-英雄
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby envagyokazapad » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:19 pm

ottackon wrote:I think the team who has played 3 CL finals from 2009 to 2013 needed a renewal and rejuvenation in one way or another. The board seems to have learned the lessons from the collapse that occurred after the CL victory in 2001, and began a gradual change in the squad, this necessarily implies heartbreaking separations but it is the price to pay in order to remain competitive. That being said, one can very much criticize some choices that have been made, but this policy is the right one IMHO.


That is natural, however I still can't help but feel we have completely blown apart what was by far the best team 2 years ago.
You just can't go ahead and try to rebuild a winning team.
Although I have to admit I'm slightly torn on a lot of these questions (since a dramatic rebuilding never actually took place) and would have a hard time putting my thoughts together on them right now.
To overly simplify: I don't think most of the individual decisions regarding the players were wrong, but the series of some of these decisions ended up backfiring (just a simple example is the sale of Kroos AND Schweinsteiger, which makes little sense now)
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby envagyokazapad » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:33 pm

Badger wrote:What you are describing is nothing more than some people's inability to understand and accept the realities of football. That inability does not deserve any great amount of sympathy.


Not really. What I'm describing is people LOVING a team and its players. Love is not really rational you know. Some people have a hard time moving on.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby ottackon » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:44 pm

envagyokazapad wrote:
ottackon wrote:I think the team who has played 3 CL finals from 2009 to 2013 needed a renewal and rejuvenation in one way or another. The board seems to have learned the lessons from the collapse that occurred after the CL victory in 2001, and began a gradual change in the squad, this necessarily implies heartbreaking separations but it is the price to pay in order to remain competitive. That being said, one can very much criticize some choices that have been made, but this policy is the right one IMHO.


That is natural, however I still can't help but feel we have completely blown apart what was by far the best team 2 years ago.
You just can't go ahead and try to rebuild a winning team.
Although I have to admit I'm slightly torn on a lot of these questions (since a dramatic rebuilding never actually took place) and would have a hard time putting my thoughts together on them right now.
To overly simplify: I don't think most of the individual decisions regarding the players were wrong, but the series of some of these decisions ended up backfiring (just a simple example is the sale of Kroos AND Schweinsteiger, which makes little sense now)

Regarding Kroos, I think you're right in the sense that the board should have complied to his wage demands, but again, we tend to idealize our beloved players and see in them the perpetual victims of a ruthless football-business. Nobody knows exactly how the negotiations are taking place nor what are the points of disagreement that drive a player to leave his club. Sports journalists no longer have any ethics and do not hesitate to invent melodramatic stories only in order to sell paper, we should therefore not draw hasty conclusions on mere extrapolations and speculations.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby ottackon » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:56 am

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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby pyrasur » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:03 am

They have the right to voice their frustrations. Hopefully the decisions made by the coach and the board will be proven correct, the same way Neuer disproved them in 2012 and Robben did in 2013. In fact this must be used as a crucible to make the team stronger.
而剑法的最高境界,则是手中无剑,心中也无剑,是以大胸怀,包容一切。那便是不杀,便是和平。-英雄
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby prasun77 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:00 am



Yup.NOW he will win the Champions League.
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