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Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby silberkreuz » Fri May 15, 2015 3:53 pm

RedQueen wrote:I own that book, I know the take it reports about that incident. I'd simply like to hear for once an account (preferably one that gives a source) of the incident independently from that book. I have nothing against that book, but I'm well aware that it was written with the intention of making Pep looking good. Hence I'm not taking everything that's written there as gospel.


I'll say.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby johndear » Fri May 15, 2015 4:37 pm

silberkreuz wrote:Yes Pep plays passing football, yes he plays a high line. Is anyone really surprised? That brand of football is exactly why Guardiola was hired in the first place!



Nobody is asking for defensive game but if you play football you know playing fire will burn you alive. it is not like a trick or secret.

I don't think KHR want to see high line to hire Pep.... if he wants to see high line he could have stick with LVG......

Pep understand the game more than us but he doesn't want to adjust the team due to his playing style - that's alone is Ego [-X

He wants to show he can still play with his way/style and win the game - but in football it doesn't work that way.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby fashiondesign_guru » Fri May 15, 2015 4:43 pm

johndear wrote:
silberkreuz wrote:Yes Pep plays passing football, yes he plays a high line. Is anyone really surprised? That brand of football is exactly why Guardiola was hired in the first place!



Nobody is asking for defensive game but if you play football you know playing fire will burn you alive. it is not like a trick or secret.

I don't think KHR want to see high line to hire Pep.... if he wants to see high line he could have stick with LVG......



Of course KHR and Hoeness knew how Guardiola was going to play when they hired him.

There's so much discrediting of Bayern directors here, forgetting who they are. They aren't some financial investors fellas. People like KHR, Hoeness, Breitner and Co. know very well about football, better than all of us here, and they knew what Pep was going to do, both by observance and when they talked to him about the "Bayern Project" when they hired him and when he began to work.

These people are former world and European champions in this game and I shouldn't have to remind you that they've been managing Bayern Munich for quite some time with considerable success. They do make mistakes, like everyone does, but saying they didn't know what kind of game he was going to go for when they hired him is unfair to their knowledge.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby RedQueen » Fri May 15, 2015 7:06 pm

fashiondesign_guru wrote:Nobody denied it. If I was working with you and then said something about RedQueen influencing me in making such and such decision and it wasn't true, you would definitely come forward and say something right? Not even Sammer or other club officials denied anything.

And for what purpose would they deny it? To have Bild print a nationwide headline on their frontpage that there's a spat in the club between the players and Guardiola, and have it trumpeted all over the world the next day? That's the last thing they want. They're doing everything to avoid such headlines. They kept denying there's a disagreement between Pep and the doctor from day one. And have you already forgotten how Lahm was fined for talking such things to Süddeutsche in an interview earlier?

You say the comments about Ribery bothers you as you clearly take it as truth but deny this.

The comments about Ribery were the author's, not Pep's, if I recall correctly. What do you mean "take them as the truth?" The author stated that Ribery couldn't grasp Pep's instructions. That's insulting to Ribery, whether he did grasp the instructions or not.

Obviously things go down behind the scenes that we don't know about and for a period of time, Perarnau's account is the as close to truth as it gets unless someone denies it or we get new information. He was with the staff and the players day in and day out. He was given full access to everything.

You are making an enormeous leap of logic here assuming that because he was with them all the time, it has to be taken for granted that he's giving an unbiased account of everything that happened. Especially given how glowingly he paints Pep all over the book.

The rumours mentioned don't dispute his report that there was a disagreement between Pep and the players over how to play. The differences relate to, let's say, the atmosphere in which it took place, what was the original plan vs the one carried out, and the role of certain players. That's all I'm going to elaborate on it.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby sws » Sat May 16, 2015 12:07 am

RedQueen wrote:
sws wrote:Which hearsays are you talking about?

Nothing but rumours from people who claim that it didn't quite happen as described in Perarnau book.

Anyways, going back to Pep Confidential, other than just his narrative there are direct quotes from different people, including a detailed interview with Kalle. Are you questioning the validity of those too?

Kalle:
Essentially it happened because he changed some aspects of his approach without being 100% sure. He made some choices that were not really his and was furious with himself for failing to stick to his own ideas. He was very clear about that. He deserted the middle of the pitch and opted for much more direct football. He had allowed himself to be influenced by the result of the away game in the Bernabéu [as opposed to Bayern’s performance that day]. And I’ll tell you something, the criticism he received for his tactics that day were completely unfair.

I own that book, I know the take it reports about that incident. I'd simply like to hear for once an account (preferably one that gives a source) of the incident independently from that book. I have nothing against that book, but I'm well aware that it was written with the intention of making Pep looking good. Hence I'm not taking everything that's written there as gospel.


I'm sorry but what exactly are you questioning here? Perarnau's journalistic integrity? I mean it's not like it's some random guy but a journalist who did spend a bulk of the 2013-14 season with Bayern. Are you doubting the validity of the interviews he quoted? I don't really understand what you're insinutating? That he made up those quotes?

I don't know what he might've left out, because there is always that chance, or not but I don't think there's any reasonable doubt where we can say that anything he said in the book is falsified. And yes, you can bet that if Matthaus, Hamann or Beckenbauer got wind that the information in the book was false, they would speak up about it.

Anyways, I knew there was a Lahm interview from back then:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 05030.html
Lahm:
"We're very disappointed because we set our sights high, but suddenly we were 2-0 down after 20 minutes from two set-pieces," Lahm said on the Bayern website.

"That really leaves a bitter taste. I don't think we played well tactically in the first half. The game was too open.

"It was the opposite of the first leg when we controlled the play. I know they hit us on the break last week, but (on Tuesday) it was end-to-end stuff in the first half.

"That's fundamentally not the way we play our football, but it's what Real really like. It totally played into their hands."


Also: http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/philip ... -1.1965884

Lahm:
"Wir hatten praktisch vier Mann (Ribéry, Müller, Mandzukic, Robben; d. Red.) vorne auf einer Linie, und im Mittelfeld waren wir in manchen Situationen in Unterzahl. Normal spielen wir's ja umgekehrt: Da stehen zwei ganz vorne, und die anderen machen das Zentrum dicht."


Both are from within the first couple weeks following the 0-4.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby pyrasur » Sat May 16, 2015 4:44 am

Can we know who these people are that are saying things didn't go down the way Perarnau wrote it? Not even getting on my "pro-Pep" horse here, seriously want to know if we are going to entertain statements from "people" as fact. Because if Pep put the mistake on the players when it was totally his mistake all along, I will totally join the Perarnau book burners.

If these are just random bums on the street though, I would rather take my propaganda from Pravda. :coffee:

Edit: I won't ACTUALLY be burning my version as I bought it to read on my laptop. So I'll just be deleting it. Just so we're clear.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby RedQueen » Sat May 16, 2015 9:39 am

sws wrote:I'm sorry but what exactly are you questioning here? ...

I told you before that I'd simply like to hear for once an account of that incident that is unrelated to Perarnau. If you take everything for a fact that's written in one book, and one that's quite obviously not written from an impartial POV, without checking a second source, so be it. Why no one in the club is eager to start a public debate about it should be self evident. And none of the quotes you cited clear up any of the questions I have.

pyrasur wrote:Not even getting on my "pro-Pep" horse here, seriously want to know if we are going to entertain statements from "people" as fact.

Thank you for that. I can't believe you're being considered a heretic here for doing what's the most obvious thing for a rationally thinking person, namely asking for a second source before you take a statement by whoever as a "fact". That applies to Perarnau as well as other "people".

That's why the entire debate started: Because fashionclub_guru stated that "we all know what happened before the second leg of that game". I for one do not know what happened. I only know what Perarnau says happened. That's not the same thing for me; again, if it's the same thing for someone else so be it.

As I said, I'm not going to elaborate on the other versions any further, because I don't know whether there is truth to it. I've already said much more than I had intended. I doubt I'll ever find out what happened, so I'll be excused now from this futile debate.
Last edited by RedQueen on Sat May 16, 2015 10:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby prasun77 » Sat May 16, 2015 9:44 am

Well to put it in a nutshell..
There's no second source going against it..neither a concrete second source in favour of it!Much like the existence of ghosts..believe what you want to! :wink:
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby RedQueen » Sat May 16, 2015 9:52 am

prasun77 wrote:Well to put it in a nutshell..
There's no second source going against it..neither a concrete second source in favour of it!Much like the existence of ghosts..

I said right at the beginning that it is rumours without sources given. That's precisely the reason I'm asking for sources.

believe what you want to! :wink:

Same here. Unless there is a second independent source, it's all about "believing", and my point is that there's a difference between believing something and knowing something for a fact.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby prasun77 » Sat May 16, 2015 10:06 am

RedQueen wrote:Same here. Unless there is a second independent source, it's all about "believing", and my point is that there's a difference between believing something and knowing something for a fact.


For that you have to wait at least till the time Pep leaves!
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby ramsej84 » Sat May 16, 2015 1:57 pm

A bit off-topic... i was playing fifa15 with my nephew (he was with Argentina)
At one point the repoter said "on his day Messi is unstoppable there is now way to stop him" ... I don't know who is copying who:evil:
for the record I was Belgium and won 4-3
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby tflags » Sat May 16, 2015 2:04 pm

In all fairness that book y'all are discussing might be the best source of information for a lot of topics none had access inside the club. But yes, you don't need to find a second source to realize right from the beginning a lot of stuff he wrote was self serving. Perarnau wasn't exactly bound to write a criticism of Guardiola in that book.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby sws » Sat May 16, 2015 2:50 pm

..
Last edited by sws on Sat May 16, 2015 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby fashiondesign_guru » Sat May 16, 2015 5:22 pm

Bayern Munich keen to extend Pep Guardiola contract beyond 2016.

Last Updated: 16/05/15 1:58pm

Bayern Munich chairman Karl-Heinz Rummenigge hopes to extend Pep Guardiola's contract and says the club are happy with his work.

Guardiola, whose existing deal expires at the end of next season, has won five titles in two seasons at Bayern.

The club have clinched a third straight Bundesliga title but Guardiola has come in for some criticism after they bowed out of the Champions League and German Cup at the semi-final stages.

He has also been linked with a move to Manchester City although Guardiola has stressed his intention to see out his contract.

"It is no accident that Guardiola is one of the world's most coveted coaches," Rummenigge told Munich-based newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung.

"If at some point he says 'I'm going to do something new', there will be at least 15 top clubs forming a queue.

"Don't forget that he has won five titles here in two years, which I believe is a club record.

"We have agreed that we will talk about his future in the second half of this year, which is how things still stand. And he knows my opinion: I want him to stay."

Rummenigge also said he had detected an 'anti-Guardiola' bias in the media, with some reporters critical of his failure to reach the Champions League final in either of his two seasons at the club.

"It has registered with me that there is a clear anti-Guardiola trend in a few media outlets at the moment," he said.

"But that has nothing to do with the atmosphere in the club. We are very happy with this man.

"I'm in constant discussions with our key players and they confirm my opinion from the first day, which is that we happily value a coach who has a precise plan. The team is very happy with him."

SkySports [source]
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby ramsej84 » Sat May 16, 2015 5:56 pm

Love Love Love Love Love Love

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