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Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby RedQueen » Thu May 14, 2015 11:14 pm

sws wrote:
RedQueen wrote:
fashiondesign_guru wrote:As for the Real Madrid 0-4 game last year, we all know how it happened, how the players didn't listen to Guardiola and wanted to play their own way.

That's what Perarnau writes. Have we ever heard an account from a player or anyone else about that incident? Just wondering.


Lahm said the same, I think. Or at least there were reports of a "leading player" saying that it was the "most misunderstood game ever".

I'd like to see sources, not hearsays. Because I've also heard "hearsays" without a source that described an entirely different take of the incident.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby sws » Fri May 15, 2015 12:08 am

RedQueen wrote:
sws wrote:
RedQueen wrote:That's what Perarnau writes. Have we ever heard an account from a player or anyone else about that incident? Just wondering.


Lahm said the same, I think. Or at least there were reports of a "leading player" saying that it was the "most misunderstood game ever".

I'd like to see sources, not hearsays. Because I've also heard "hearsays" without a source that described an entirely different take of the incident.


Which hearsays are you talking about?

Anyways, going back to Pep Confidential, other than just his narrative there are direct quotes from different people, including a detailed interview with Kalle. Are you questioning the validity of those too?

Kalle:
Essentially it happened because he changed some aspects of his approach without being 100% sure. He made some choices that were not really his and was furious with himself for failing to stick to his own ideas. He was very clear about that. He deserted the middle of the pitch and opted for much more direct football. He had allowed himself to be influenced by the result of the away game in the Bernabéu [as opposed to Bayern’s performance that day]. And I’ll tell you something, the criticism he received for his tactics that day were completely unfair.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Abc456 » Fri May 15, 2015 5:52 am

Yes now he is quite clear about his ideas.
Lahm will play in midfield.
Rafinha will start every game.
A high line should be played.
Players should be encouraged to backpass to retain possession even around the box.
Long shots are not of any use.
Practicing set-pieces is not necessary.
Scoring from corners is boring.
Instead of crossing we should just pass the ball towards center.
Possession wins matches not goals.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby ramsej84 » Fri May 15, 2015 8:05 am

Allegri must decide which Juventus to send to Berlin: this is the highlight that we never had In a recent Serie A match at Torino, Allegri criticised his team for continuing to pour forward after scoring an early goal, giving their neighbours to hit back for a 2-1 win.
“There are certain phases in the game in which you also need to wait and be patient,” he said at the time. “You have to know how to read the game and handle the result.” [source]
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby endrity » Fri May 15, 2015 8:09 am

I remember both games against Madrid quite well. We had a great first 20 minutes in the first leg during which the team played with a tempo and directness not seen since Jupp's days but that it also seemed immediately a bid adventurous. After the first goal the team seemed deflated, we played a typical Pep game with a lot of posession but not a lot of end results. That's about as much as his game plan as possible.

The second game I have no idea what Pep might be complaining. It was a performace similar to those we had put in in the league during that month as well. Very letharghic, few ideas, and very vulnerable to quick counters and dead ball situations. If the 0-4 was somehow "Jupp's Bayern" in his mind than he has absolutely lost it. Jupp's 2013 Bayern was built around the Basti-Javi pair in the middle, that's where their greatness stood. Without that there was no treble. So if Guardiola wanted to go back to the old approach it begins with that partnership.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby sws » Fri May 15, 2015 8:12 am

endrity wrote:I remember both games against Madrid quite well. We had a great first 20 minutes in the first leg during which the team played with a tempo and directness not seen since Jupp's days but that it also seemed immediately a bid adventurous. After the first goal the team seemed deflated, we played a typical Pep game with a lot of posession but not a lot of end results. That's about as much as his game plan as possible.

The second game I have no idea what Pep might be complaining. It was a performace similar to those we had put in in the league during that month as well. Very letharghic, few ideas, and very vulnerable to quick counters and dead ball situations. If the 0-4 was somehow "Jupp's Bayern" in his mind than he has absolutely lost it. Jupp's 2013 Bayern was built around the Basti-Javi pair in the middle, that's where their greatness stood. Without that there was no treble. So if Guardiola wanted to go back to the old approach it begins with that partnership.



When did he ever say that the 0-4 was Jupp's Bayern :?: :?:
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby RedQueen » Fri May 15, 2015 9:17 am

sws wrote:Which hearsays are you talking about?

Nothing but rumours from people who claim that it didn't quite happen as described in Perarnau book.

Anyways, going back to Pep Confidential, other than just his narrative there are direct quotes from different people, including a detailed interview with Kalle. Are you questioning the validity of those too?

Kalle:
Essentially it happened because he changed some aspects of his approach without being 100% sure. He made some choices that were not really his and was furious with himself for failing to stick to his own ideas. He was very clear about that. He deserted the middle of the pitch and opted for much more direct football. He had allowed himself to be influenced by the result of the away game in the Bernabéu [as opposed to Bayern’s performance that day]. And I’ll tell you something, the criticism he received for his tactics that day were completely unfair.

I own that book, I know the take it reports about that incident. I'd simply like to hear for once an account (preferably one that gives a source) of the incident independently from that book. I have nothing against that book, but I'm well aware that it was written with the intention of making Pep looking good. Hence I'm not taking everything that's written there as gospel.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby silberkreuz » Fri May 15, 2015 10:34 am

I'm not a fan of the 'blame Pep' brigade.
It's difficult to judge his success even now- last year was his first year and this year we've had the single worst injury crisis I've ever seen at Bayern, second only in overall terms to that ridiculous period that St. Pauli went through where they had to sign one of the office apprentices up to the team.
Saying that Pep only plays a certain way is tough to justify when he really hasn't had the players he needs to play in a much different way. It's not that he refuses to change his style of play with different types of players rotting on the bench- he doesn't have any other players.
After all, what width can he use in this team? There aren't enough players in our team that can actually just get past their man, the ones that do exist have either been used straight away or are injured. That means the team has to play through the middle, which means you need to overload the midfield to get an advantage.
Yes Pep plays passing football, yes he plays a high line. Is anyone really surprised? That brand of football is exactly why Guardiola was hired in the first place!
I'm not saying Pep is beyond crticism, but for God's sake, give the man a break! He can't be blamed for everything! Had a few things gone our way in Barcelona, we'd probably be through and you'd all be singing his praises. I'll wait until he's settled with a fully fit team with different tactical options to reserve judgement.
For now, I'll just say that I generally enjoy watching Bayern play their game- and seeing as I've watched Bayern play my entire life, I can honestly say that has not always been the case.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby endrity » Fri May 15, 2015 11:54 am

When you have half a team injured, a rational person would try to play conservative football.

When Pep has half a team injured he plays even more wide open than usual because how else can he win, if not by trying to control posession even more now that some of his main creators are out?

If you think that's crazy, you are right. But that is how Pep seems to think. No injury crisis justifies his formations and tactics, absolutely NONE. And he has been doing this bullsh*t ever since he came to Bayern. His insistence to play players out of position under weird tactics are the signs of delusion of grandeur, not the sign of a perfectionist.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby ottackon » Fri May 15, 2015 12:02 pm

Replace Britney by Pep

Image
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Abc456 » Fri May 15, 2015 12:17 pm

Did we do amazing against porto and shakhtar?
What if it had gone wrong?
With so many players injured he should have played a defensive game catching barca on counter and set pieces.
And how many goals have we scored from corners this season?
Do we even practice them?
He played the world's best fullbacks in midfield even when we had bastian , martinez , gotze , kroos and others.
Pep needs to correct the mistakes he made but I tell you . He just won't . He will play with exact same lineups and tactics against every team we face even next season
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby fashiondesign_guru » Fri May 15, 2015 12:47 pm

RedQueen wrote:
fashiondesign_guru wrote:As for the Real Madrid 0-4 game last year, we all know how it happened, how the players didn't listen to Guardiola and wanted to play their own way.

That's what Perarnau writes. Have we ever heard an account from a player or anyone else about that incident? Just wondering.


Nobody denied it. If I was working with you and then said something about RedQueen influencing me in making such and such decision and it wasn't true, you would definitely come forward and say something right? Not even Sammer or other club officials denied anything.

You say the comments about Ribery bothers you as you clearly take it as truth but deny this.

Obviously things go down behind the scenes that we don't know about and for a period of time, Perarnau's account is the as close to truth as it gets unless someone denies it or we get new information. He was with the staff and the players day in and day out. He was given full access to everything.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby pyrasur » Fri May 15, 2015 1:40 pm

ottackon wrote:Replace Britney by Pep

Image


Or replace the whole thing with "Bring Jupp back" Actually eff it, if that stops this annoying debate I'm for it. :coffee:
而剑法的最高境界,则是手中无剑,心中也无剑,是以大胸怀,包容一切。那便是不杀,便是和平。-英雄
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby fashiondesign_guru » Fri May 15, 2015 2:01 pm

RedQueen wrote:I own that book, I know the take it reports about that incident. I'd simply like to hear for once an account (preferably one that gives a source) of the incident independently from that book. I have nothing against that book, but I'm well aware that it was written with the intention of making Pep looking good. Hence I'm not taking everything that's written there as gospel.


Or from a different perspective, I'd like to hear one word from Bayern camp that denies it. The book narrates events that it claims to have taken place, yet not one single person came forward and said "that's not what happened". Forget the players, not even Sammer or Kalle said anything about it.

And this is not me being pro-Guardiola here. I personally believe there are some personal differences between Guardiola and the squad (or some players), from what it looks like from the outside. Of course we can't know what's going on in the dressing room.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby e-gore1 » Fri May 15, 2015 2:59 pm

There are a lot of opinions here from both sides, which is great. What bothers me most is that some of you automatically brand people as "pep lovers", "pep fanboys" ,"pep haters" and "pep rausers". Myself having some good things to say about pep (i'm not a pep lover) as well as bad things (i'm not a rauser) - i will spare you the details since all of it has been said before by others. People have objective criticism which is justified, be it about Pep as a person, his methods, his philosophy or whatever, be it good or bad.

We all support the same club, hence we are hurt when things aren't perfect and i'm not talking about what we achieved this year - BL title, pokal semi final, CL semi - that is by no means bad, but the stressful road we had to take to get (Endless injuries, constant alterations in the setup etc etc).
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