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Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby AdepT » Thu May 07, 2015 1:20 pm

tflags wrote:Yesterday wasn't Pep's worst. I think he got things wrong first, corrected later, but made a mistake of not playing the 1 0 securely. All things considered, they won because they had Messi. Apart from the first 15, not a single player had freedom to move around or create a killer pass.

But you guys want to win without wingers, with an aged midfield playing beyond their capacity and with a back four against the three most gifted people on this planet. Fine. I think Pep doesn't protect a bad result, he only knows how to make it worse. But he sure as hell didn't have the people to score yesterday either now did He?

I will not blame him for the loss. Had Robben been there, it would have been a completely different game.
Basti going out on left flank doesn't really help. And there weren't any cross-deliverers. So many misplaced passes.
It could very well have ended 0-0.
I only have issue with the mid of Basti-Alonso-Lahm. May be we should have had Gotze from start and Alonso rested.

At this moment of time, my only issue is he's too experimental and yesterday's situation didn't demand it.

We do really need at least one game-killer dribbler similar to Robben/Ribery. May be move Alaba to LW. Pep are you reading? Let's try that. :D
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Bayernbazi » Thu May 07, 2015 1:29 pm

quaazi wrote:Food for thought.


Good analysis....the possibility of something like that is something which so far stops me asking for Pep to be fired despite the scepticism I have grown over these 2 years. Plus sometimes I ask myself if Pep gets the players that he really needs to implement his plans without any interference say from Sammer (getting cheaper players rather than more quality). I don't know how it was at Barca.

So although I wish for a real deep post mortem from the club after this season I hope that the outcome will not involve getting a new coach which will take more years to get us out of an unfinished Pep project planned for a further year. From Barca's choreo yesterday I noticed that their last 3 CL cups were spaced 3yrs and 2yrs respectively so I am still hopeful that in his last season if maybe things are as they should, we may see another CL title.

Some things which need to be addressed are;
Which players are really hungry for more success...sometimes I see us too timid when compared to the opposition.
Lewa is a shadow of the killer he used to be at BVB. He did not have a WC semis / final this summer. We cannot continue to be so much wasteful.
The Götze that is in the squad is not the player that we expected to get for 34M.
Does it make sense running away with the league to end out of form and decimated squad when it counts most for CL final progression ?
From the winter break onwards Alonso is not fit for a whole match.
Lahm has become too sheepish.
Real and proper training camps and not marketing stunts making the players tired before they even start playing.
Was it wise letting Shaqiri and Kroos getting away ? Did we fare better without them ?
What happened to Dante of the 1st season which we used to call D-Wall ?
We fail at set pieces with long balls....corners, free kicks, volleys for headers in the opponent's box.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby PunkCapitalist » Thu May 07, 2015 2:03 pm

Shaqiri and Kroos (especially Shaqiri) weren't that big of a loss. But we should have gotten cover for the wings. Ultimately, we had Schweini, Alonso, Thiago, Lahm and Alaba (+Rode) for midfield. Predicting that Alonso would have to play the ENTIRE season no-stop because all others were going to be out wasn't realistic.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby RedQueen » Thu May 07, 2015 2:08 pm

I know Whitney isn't rated by some here, but I'll post this anyway.

Is Champions League Defeat Start of the End for Pep Guardiola at Bayern Munich? | B/R [source]


The headline is a bit click bait, but some interesting thoughts in it.
"Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!" - Red Queen, Alice - Through the Looking-Glass
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby MoFattal » Thu May 07, 2015 2:12 pm

My newly-formed criticism of Pep isn't based on last night's result. It became clearer after last night, but it is more related to the fact that we have not been good enough against the "bigger" teams ever since the treble season. This truly was the make-or-break season of Pep and it turned out not any better (but worse some may argue) than last year. He has one year left on his contract, but what worries me is that the last year was meant to be as a "flow with the tide" sort of thing and not yet again "balancing the ship". Personally, I wouldn't want to see a similar consecutive third year where Pep would still be trying to find the winning formula, and then he leaves us after it ends. It would be a waste of time and unfair for our golden generation. So, either Pep sticks around for longer and presents some clear paths for his vision, or I would prefer to limit the damage and start over next season with a new coach at the helm. The golden generation still has around 2 seasons left to fulfill its potential. After that, a new project is bound to happen.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby ovmsm » Thu May 07, 2015 2:21 pm

MoFattal wrote:My newly-formed criticism of Pep isn't based on last night's result. It became clearer after last night, but it is more related to the fact that we have not been good enough against the "bigger" teams ever since the treble season. This truly was the make-or-break season of Pep and it turned out not any better (but worse some may argue) than last year. He has one year left on his contract, but what worries me is that the last year was meant to be as a "flow with the tide" sort of thing and not yet again "balancing the ship". Personally, I wouldn't want to see a similar consecutive third year where Pep would still be trying to find the winning formula, and then he leaves us after it ends. It would be a waste of time and unfair for our golden generation. So, either Pep sticks around for longer and presents some clear paths for his vision, or I would prefer to limit the damage and start over next season with a new coach at the helm. The golden generation still has around 2 seasons left to fulfill its potential. After that, a new project is bound to happen.


Absolutely agree.
If Pep ends after the next season, our golden generation will be quite close to the end of their careers. Ribéry and Robben will be also one year older. The next trainer would be in a big complication which can solve just another top class trainer and unfortunately a big bag of money to buy star players. Who will be available? I just dont want to think about that. I had the same desire last year, this year also ... I hope players will understand Pep's football finally and start playing some football. Not back pass carneval. I have to say that this season there wasn't a single match to be happy about. 7 goals to Roma, cool, but it was a lucky game at finishing.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby envagyokazapad » Thu May 07, 2015 4:32 pm

MoFattal wrote:Personally, I wouldn't want to see a similar consecutive third year where Pep would still be trying to find the winning formula, and then he leaves us after it ends. It would be a waste of time and unfair for our golden generation. So, either Pep sticks around for longer and presents some clear paths for his vision, or I would prefer to limit the damage and start over next season with a new coach at the helm..


!!! Just the point I wanted to make. Whatever we do, either extend with him, or part ways now. Klopp is available from this summer anyway, even that option will be gone next year. No point keeping Pep if he doesn't want to extend beyond 2016.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby FCB general » Thu May 07, 2015 4:54 pm

MoFattal wrote:My newly-formed criticism of Pep isn't based on last night's result. It became clearer after last night, but it is more related to the fact that we have not been good enough against the "bigger" teams ever since the treble season. This truly was the make-or-break season of Pep and it turned out not any better (but worse some may argue) than last year. He has one year left on his contract, but what worries me is that the last year was meant to be as a "flow with the tide" sort of thing and not yet again "balancing the ship". Personally, I wouldn't want to see a similar consecutive third year where Pep would still be trying to find the winning formula, and then he leaves us after it ends. It would be a waste of time and unfair for our golden generation. So, either Pep sticks around for longer and presents some clear paths for his vision, or I would prefer to limit the damage and start over next season with a new coach at the helm. The golden generation still has around 2 seasons left to fulfill its potential. After that, a new project is bound to happen.

Sorry that I have to disappoint you, but the time of golden generation is over.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Jorge » Thu May 07, 2015 5:07 pm

AdepT wrote:I will not blame him for the loss. Had Robben been there, it would have been a completely different game.


I am concerned that Robben is on his way out due to age and injuries and I thought we had a team on the field good enough to at least get a decent result. The 11 players that were fielded are not too far off the 11 that demolished a very similar Barca only 2 years ago and score yesterday could have been easily 6-7 : 0. Can you explain how Robben would have changed the outcome of the game a little bit more?
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Jorge » Thu May 07, 2015 5:08 pm

ramsej84 wrote:or hiring the 2 old foxes (since they are very old they can help each other out :P ) General Ottmar Hitzfeld and Don Jupp :D


Don't forget Gio Trap in a special advisory role :)
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Jorge » Thu May 07, 2015 5:16 pm

endrity wrote: (...) he goes and plays a wide open game to convince the world that his tiki-taka is still the best style around.(...)


Add to the argument that the inventors of tiki-taka themselves (precisely the Barcelona that we faced and Spain) have been re-evaluating the whole concept for 2 years now after being trashed in high profile matches.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby RAJBAYERN » Thu May 07, 2015 5:32 pm

The absent of players like Robben and Ribery affect our performance, because this is a team sport and every important absent on a particular position, affect the overall performance of the team.

Without your best players on attack, you need the contribution of the midfielders and defenders to push the team forward, overcharging them in functions and sometimes exposing their back, like what happen in the third goal.

Robben and Ribery are this type of players that by themselves alone can face the mark , open holes through the defenders and also with speed taking advantage of the barca defenders when they are bad positioning, giving us more attempts to score. With more opportunities in our side, directly decrease the attempts of the opponent.

One of the reason we struggle on offense yesterday, was the lack of idea for develop offensive plays, consequently it made more easy for Barcelona to recover the ball and counterattack us, we had the ball but no idea for attack them, when Bayern was in the midfield.

Attacking is the best form to defend, if we attack more yesterday, consequently less work to our defenders.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby Jorge » Thu May 07, 2015 6:08 pm

I am missing something here: Bayern can give a decent game to Barcelona only if it has Robben and Ribery in the lineup? So it is a team sport and it comes down to 2 individuals? I can't deny that Bayern is substantially better with Robben and Ribery in the line-up but I am convinced that the 11 players on the field yesterday if they were in shape and playing the right tactics would have given the opponent a good run for the money but they looked mediocre at best.
Based on what I watched maybe Robben-Ribery would have mitigated a little bit the damage but I doubt it would have changed the outcome of the game. The turnovers from building from the back exposing our defensive line to crafty and pacey players have nothing to do with having two best offensive wingers in our line-up: it has to do with the way we play and the poor shape of our midfielders.
In my opinion the absence of a pragmatic coach that understands Bayern rather than obsessed with the idea of changing it has more to do with the defeat than the absence of specific players: even if they are named Arjen and Franck.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby krkla » Thu May 07, 2015 7:44 pm

Blaming Pep for last nights failure seems a bit far fetched in my opinion. Playing Lahm, Schweinsteiger and Alonso was clearly a way to minimize space between defence and midfield and thereby eliminate the possibility for Barca to keep possession in our 3rd of the pitch, perhaps hoping to score on the counter. On paper a brilliant idea that unfortunately didn't work. Obviously the formation isn't our ideal starting XI but when we suffer injuries on such crucial positions something different has to be done. I know this isn't a transfer thread, but last nights game just confirmed how crucial it is for us to sign new wingers and offensive minded players.
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Re: Pep Guardiola [Josep Guardiola i Sala]

Postby RAJBAYERN » Thu May 07, 2015 8:25 pm

Jorge wrote:I am missing something here: Bayern can give a decent game to Barcelona only if it has Robben and Ribery in the lineup? So it is a team sport and it comes down to 2 individuals? I can't deny that Bayern is substantially better with Robben and Ribery in the line-up but I am convinced that the 11 players on the field yesterday if they were in shape and playing the right tactics would have given the opponent a good run for the money but they looked mediocre at best.


It is not 2 individuals because other roles like the defensive tasks and recovery are in charge of the defenders and midfielders, but for offensive tasks, without our best wingers, it make tough to create attempts against an opponent like Barcelona. It doesn't excuse at all our poor offensive performance at all, but it was a real factor.

You doubt about how different could be if we have Robben and Ribery, but answer you this question: Do you think Barcelona would struggle our defense by the same form if Messi and Neymar didn't play?.

They have their best players available, we don't. This made a huge difference on the pitch.
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