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Manuel Neuer

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Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby FCB general » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:16 pm

runaway wrote:If you've watched Barca-Atleti game yesterday, Ter Stegen didn't have to do shit. He sat in his box and passed the ball.

Neither did Oblak. It's important for the team to have GK which is save, has a great communication with his team-mates, most of all defensive line and that's it. The rest is up to his qualitiy in 16m box where GK must rule the area.

JANCKER wrote:Chilavert was a great FK taker... but that's it. :lol:

Yes, but that's something extreme. To see a GK some 70 meters far from his own 'home' and scoring goals from FKs. Very risky, but it wasn't for the Chilean keeper, as well as Rogerio Ceni(who's an expert for both FK and PK). Butt was also an expert, but we all recall that long celebration of PK goal and slow comeback between his posts. Mike Hanke had punished him and then the whole team started to demand 'something', ie nothing from the main referee. :lol: :lol:

JANCKER wrote:I agree that this is EVOLUTION, not REVOLUTION.

We can say neither of that, but sometimes we say that it is evolution. It's just how often have some GKs did it in the past. Neuer is doing well... Something between sometimes and often. Not so often, but when is necessary. I don't count his involvement through the entire match by passing, etc. But these 30-40 meter trips away from his own goal. :)

JANCKER wrote:Here's my biased list of keepers that I saw playing:

  1. Kahn
  2. Van der Sar
  3. Neuer
  4. Buffon
  5. Čeh
  6. Schmeichel
  7. Casillas

It's actually hard to put somebody for no. 1.

MUTU wrote:This is true, you mentioned goalkeepers who have been more adventurous than Neuer, but at the same time they never came anywhere as close to Neuer's goalkeeping skills.

This red! The other part is also true.

MUTU wrote:Of all the goalkeepers in football history who come close in pure goalkeeping skills to Neuer (eg Maier, Schmeichel, Kahn, Buffon, Casillas etc), no one can claim to be better than Neuer with the ball at his feet.

Yes! :thumbup: Valdes is just a walking circus. A guy who often conceded silly goals(this was so obvious before 2008/2009), but also a guy who knew to perform fantastic in the most important matches for Barca(CL finals). Still, not as close as Neuer caliber.
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Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby FCB general » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:23 pm

MUTU wrote:
JANCKER wrote:It sounds to me like Neuer 'patented' GK footing skills... I don't like patents or Thomas Edison.

Well, take it this way. Others tried and failed, i.e. were ridiculed like Higuita was, or beaten quite easily when a quality keeper would have saved. But Neuer is THE FIRST goalkeeper in history who is both cheeky and able to skilfully protect his goal as well. No one is claiming Neuer is the first cheeky goalkeeper... there must have been loads of goalkeepers venturing outfield, especially in amateur football matches amongst friends etc.

Well, he didn't patent anything. He just DARED to play like field players and that's it. He's the first one who consciously wants to play like this and the whole team trust to him and understand him and his qualities.

See the first comment of this Manuel Neuer topic and you'll see it and understand it. My comment, match against Inter and Stanković goal - yes, I mocked that Neuer and FCB's future no. 1. Few weeks before that, there was another one in the Bundesliga. Even when he moved to Bayern, he blew up twice against Gladbach and I guess there was one more match where his long distance trips cost us some 6 or 9 points that season.
Last edited by FCB general on Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby runaway » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:23 pm

The difference is Oblak had Barca players outside his box. Ter Stegen doesn't. Pique and Mascherano where in the halfway line most of the time. See how different it can be? Neuer doesn't need to rush out his box. He's the best GK even in the traditional shot stopping criteria today but he does because why not? The benefit of 11 outfield players vs 10 is certainly worth the risk.

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Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby FCB general » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:32 pm

runaway wrote:The difference is Oblak had Barca players outside his box. Ter Stegen doesn't. Pique and Mascherano where in the halfway line most of the time. See how different it can be? Neuer doesn't need to rush put his box. He's the best GK even in the traditional shot stopping criteria but he does because why not? The benefit of 11 outfield players vs 10 is certainly worth the risk.

There's no 11 field players in football, only 10. GK may move to center of the pitch and that's it. The only time he becomes a field player are tackles some 20-30 meters away of his goal and that's it, ie defensive duties. The only time when GK is a field player in attack is when he's taking penalty, free kick and the last(and the most realistic) - corner kicks among other "jumpers" in the penalty area. :wink:
Yes, he can assist from goal to goal like Neuer did in 2010 against England for Klose's goal or even score(from goal to goal) like Asmir Begović did twice in the Premier league. :D These actions are almost exceptions, so rarely happen that you can't take them as something usual.

At this moment and this point of view, only Neuer can overthrown himself from the title of top GK in the planet. It's so unlikely to see one more type of Neuer at the same time.
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Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby MillaMjau » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:41 pm

El Mundo Deportivo hailed Ter Stegen "The new Neuer" after his performance against Atleti.

Btw, Neuer will be in Berlin this coming Monday to reveal his wax figure. [source]


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Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby runaway » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:52 pm

Neuer, and any goalkeeper, is a field player the moment he steps out of his box and spends more time out of it than inside. He can't use his hands outside the box. He can't use his hands to shoot the ball and score a goal. Khan tried it ref didn't buy it. He can't use his hands to tackle a player outside the box.

Neuer contributes in our possession game. He is a safe passing option and can initiate attack with his long balls and throws. In truth everything I'm saying is just repeating the already long analysis we translated about Neuer.

From offense to defense you can't possibly say Neuer is not involved in Bayern's and NationalElf's any lesser than any of his other 10 teammates. And he makes conscious effort to BE involved. Heck how many times has it been that Neuer has more touches than the opponent and even the whole opponent? He certainly had against Messi in the WC Final. One day that 2012 Neverkusen game will be repeated and Pizarro might score the header this time.

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Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby runaway » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:55 pm

MillaMjau wrote:
Btw, Neuer will be in Berlin this coming Monday to reveal his wax figure. [source]


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That is freaky. I hope his wax figure doesn't have an erection... :lol:


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Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby fearlesskiki » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:00 pm

MillaMjau wrote:El Mundo Deportivo
Btw, Neuer will be in Berlin this coming Monday to reveal his wax figure. [source]


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=D> =D> Oh wow, great job for the people of Madame Tussauds
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Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby RedQueen » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:02 pm

runaway wrote: Heck how many times has it been that Neuer has more touches than the opponent and even the whole opponent? He certainly had against Messi in the WC Final.

He completed two more passes during the entire WC than Messi, per FIFA statistics. It's rather interesting to look at WhoScored's passing statistics after some matches. He often has more passes than most or all of the opponent's players, and frequently more than some Bayern players, in particular Lewa and Müller, even if they played for the entire 90 minutes.

E: Good job at Mme Tussaud. Much better than Özil. Posing in underwear has paid off after all :lol:
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Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby FCB general » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:11 pm

MillaMjau wrote:El Mundo Deportivo hailed Ter Stegen "The new Neuer" after his performance against Atleti.

Well, they at Camp Nou really like to fly high and then crush down like a bottle. :lol: :lol: :lol:

But I'm glad to see discussion about goalkeepers which are recently forgotten topic.

In the last 4-5 years many GK have shown up and that position isn't weak as it was in 2008-2011. Many great GK play and there are also some older guys like Buffon ready to end their careers.

Neuer, ter Stegen, Zieler, Leno, Sommer, Courtouis, Cech, De Gea, Arsenjo, Oblak, Handanovič, Navas, Bravo, Sirigu, Buffon, Lloris, Diego Alves...

Clubs can find good, reliable (perspective) keepers.

RedQueen wrote:He completed two more passes during the entire WC than Messi, per FIFA statistics. It's rather interesting to look at WhoScored's passing statistics after some matches. He often has more passes than most or all of the opponent's players, and frequently more than some Bayern players, in particular Lewa and Müller, even if they played for the entire 90 minutes.

Yep, but touches are irrelevant. Only key actions, preassists, assists and above all in football - goals are important and what it counts.

Nobody didn't talk about Neuer's(or someone elses) ball contacts when Bayern lost 0:5 in 2 legs against Real Madrid - nobody! :D
I'll just shoot it; Bayern can make 1800 passes during the 90 minutes, but that's completely irrelevant for the game. Goals only count no matter how you score them. Neuer can produce that only in 2-3 ways, but these things don't happen every game.
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Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby RedQueen » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:25 pm

We have a saying in Germany (don't know whether that's a saying elsewhere, too): Attack wins games, defense wins championships.

Or, as the author of the article I posted in the Ballon D'Or thread yesterday wrote: If we score, we might win. If they never score, we'll never lose.
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Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby JANCKER » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:29 pm

I was just trying to point out that all this noise might not work on Neuer's favor later...
'Sweeper keeper' is not a nickname like Der Kaiser, Der Bomber, etc... it suggests a new style 'undiscovered' before. Who has the right to patent abilities? Media is doing that, later they will be the ones that will crucify him.
A GK uses his feet or goes outside the box, 'he did a Neuer, the new Neuer'. Possession = tiki-taka...
The revolution is not an apple that falls when it is ripe. You have to make it fall.
Neuer had games that he didn't have to pay attention to the game at all... and he didn't hide the fact that he was bored unlike some other world greatest GK that pretend to be doing a great job when they are doing nothing at all. Neuer is doing a great job but too much is too much.
Every year or between two years this generation is producing 'the best of all times' as if they were cookies... that's disrespectul to football history. They might be right but what's the rush...
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Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby quaazi » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:39 pm

runaway wrote: No revolution occurs overnight.

They do, they're just called a "coup" then. :wink:
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-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
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Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby runaway » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:14 pm

Just like being a libero, a position that's also been around even before it was popularized, is forever associated to Der Kaiser so will being a sweeper keeper to Neuer. Its his style of play even in Schalke and I doubt it's going to change anytime soon. Messi despite all his success is always associated to Maradona for their likeness in physique and style of play.

Even without a fancy name to a position any mistake will be magnified when you're a defender because it's the nature of the position that demands little mistakes. An attacker doesn't have to worry about his misses as long as he can contribute one goal but every mistake by a defender can lose a game.

What's the point of controlling or being wary of what the media is going to say. Should Bayern have its own Marca to push it's own agenda to the public? Bayern has long been fodder to them. And public opinion does not easily favor Germans. What matters is on the pitch and Neuer's own actions testifies on his merit.

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Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby MillaMjau » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:35 pm

runaway wrote:Its his style of play even in Schalke and I doubt it's going to change anytime soon.


I think it was Oliver Bierhoff who described Neuer "ambitious and absolutely hell-bent on winning anything". If his team is losing, Neuer goes even crazier than usual. Like the Leverkusen match.
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