You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

Manuel Neuer

Discussions about the former / present players & staff, and their personal life. Was a player fined for speeding? Did a former player become a coach? Find it all here.
 

Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby JANCKER » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:34 pm

That 'revolutionize', 'sweeper keeper'... in a matter of time it will sound like 'tiki-taka'.
Like if football started from yesterday... with all due respect for Neuer, this is exaggerating.
We never saw a GK play with his foot before Neuer?
This will make haters, same as it did 'tiki-taka', which is an older style than what people think.
.........................................Image.........................................
User avatar
JANCKER
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 17386
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:03 am
Location: 710 miles SE from Allianz Arena
National Flag:
Basque Country
Has thanked: 9074 times
Been thanked: 8358 times
Gender: Male

Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby runaway » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:32 pm

Of course Neuer didn't invent this new style but like Yashin, he made this way of playing standard in football. We can't argue that more and more GKs do this today. Before it was a handful of crazy South American keepers; this generation we have Lolris and Valdez but when they do it people mock and make fun of why they even need to do such thing. Now it's becoming commonplace and for Germany, a necessary skill.

In the in-depth analysis we translated there were other GKs in the past the author mentioned that already have this playing style and unfortunately forgotten in the annals of football history. So this style has existed before then why did we see it on a handful of goalkeepers before Neuer then today almost any goalkeeper tries to pull off 'crazy' moves? It's incredibly dense to not see Neuer's connection and influence in this new trend.

via Tapatalk
“If players weren’t human, I’d never lose.” ~El Loco
User avatar
runaway
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 3850
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:21 am
National Flag:
Philippines
Has thanked: 402 times
Been thanked: 1162 times

Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby RedQueen » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:02 pm

JANCKER wrote:That 'revolutionize', 'sweeper keeper'...
[...]
This will make haters, same as it did 'tiki-taka', which is an older style than what people think.

Haters gonna hate, there's nothing you can do about that. That's the price you pay for being extraordinarily successful. If it's not the sweeper keeper, they'll find something else.

The bigger problem of the sweeper keeper thing is that it tends to distract people from his qualities as a shot stopper. I keep reading that Neuer is the better sweeper keeper but DDG, Courtois... you name them, are at least as good or better shot stoppers.
"Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!" - Red Queen, Alice - Through the Looking-Glass
User avatar
RedQueen
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1368
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:58 pm
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 99 times
Been thanked: 677 times
Gender: Female

Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby JANCKER » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:09 pm

RedQueen wrote:The bigger problem of the sweeper keeper thing is that it tends to distract people from his qualities as a shot stopper.


Tbat's exactly what I was talking about... most people created the idea that 'tiki-taka' is passing the ball around without reason.
That will happen to 'sweeper keeper' too.
.........................................Image.........................................
User avatar
JANCKER
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 17386
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:03 am
Location: 710 miles SE from Allianz Arena
National Flag:
Basque Country
Has thanked: 9074 times
Been thanked: 8358 times
Gender: Male

Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby RedQueen » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:21 pm

I'm still not convinced that it'll catch on. You can train tiki-taka, but I'm not convinced you can train sweeper-keeping to the same extent. Yes, they can train goalkeepers to become better passers, but much more important is anticipation and judgement. I still think this is a lot due to talent and perhaps also experience.
runaway wrote:... today almost any goalkeeper tries to pull off 'crazy' moves

And an awful lot catch a bloodied nose trying to pull it off. A lot of coaches won't be willing to put up with the failures, and a lot of keepers won't be willing to find themselves in the headlines and on youtube reels with an egg in their face after failed attempts either. Apart from talent and experience, it also takes a personality trait that's not so common; it takes a player who is not afraid of failing and being made fun of publicly.
"Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!" - Red Queen, Alice - Through the Looking-Glass
User avatar
RedQueen
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1368
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:58 pm
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 99 times
Been thanked: 677 times
Gender: Female

Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby pyrasur » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:10 am

First game for us, him and Boateng made that huge mistake against Gladbach. To make that kind of mistake in Bayern without proving oneself, and he had the courage to stick to his guns.

To think both Boateng and Neuer are irreplaceable now :D
而剑法的最高境界,则是手中无剑,心中也无剑,是以大胸怀,包容一切。那便是不杀,便是和平。-英雄
User avatar
pyrasur
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 3894
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:05 am
National Flag:
United States of America
Has thanked: 2225 times
Been thanked: 1822 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby JANCKER » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:39 am

He's not flawless... same as Boa. They have their share of mistakes, most of the time they get out of it unpunished.
Against RM last year he had 2 or 3 bad sweeper keeper interventions but didn't get punished luckily. Boa was caught sleeping that game too... They had their 'Gladbach' game even last year.
.........................................Image.........................................
User avatar
JANCKER
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 17386
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:03 am
Location: 710 miles SE from Allianz Arena
National Flag:
Basque Country
Has thanked: 9074 times
Been thanked: 8358 times
Gender: Male

Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby RedQueen » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:00 am

The player who makes no mistakes has yet to be born. Boa had a very bad one against ManCity in December and was lucky that it was a meaningless game. About Real, it's quite funny that everyone talks about Neuer's bad clearances but not about Bale's and CR7's failure to capitalize on them.

What I wanted to say in my earlier post though is that if a player just starts trying something new and risky like sweeping, and makes mistakes repeatedly, chances are that the player or the coach (or both) will be discouraged, especially if it makes nationwide headlines thanks to "Bild". If that happens not once or twice a year, but every four weeks. That's one of the reasons I'm not convinced that sweeper-keeper will become a major trend.
"Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!" - Red Queen, Alice - Through the Looking-Glass
User avatar
RedQueen
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1368
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:58 pm
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 99 times
Been thanked: 677 times
Gender: Female

Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby FCB general » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:11 pm

Well, when Neuer becomes a

Image

or even these

Image

Image

Then we'll say what exactly he did or did not improve in football.


What makes Neuer so special these days is a frequency of doing these things. But yes, he looks the best with the ball in his feet in comparison to Valdes, Lloris or someone else.


Still, he's not even close to GKs such as Ceni, Chilavert who were also the no. 1 PK and FK takers.

So yes, we talk only about improvement in one football segment and nothing else.

JANCKER wrote:That 'revolutionize', 'sweeper keeper'... in a matter of time it will sound like 'tiki-taka'.
Like if football started from yesterday... with all due respect for Neuer, this is exaggerating.

Bingo! To te ja pitam doktore! :D =D>

Guardiola improved Cruyff's football philosophy and before that Cruyff had improved Michels' philosophy. There's no revolution, only improved which is also doubtful to call "evolution".
Cada loco con su tema.
User avatar
FCB general
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 6508
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:11 pm
Location: Croatia
National Flag:
Red Cross
Has thanked: 2639 times
Been thanked: 2862 times
Gender: Male

Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby runaway » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:26 pm

So for Neuer to be the best of all time he needs to score goals? Ain't that mad? :coffee:

Neuer's contribution to Bayern's and NationalElf's play doesn't start and stop with the ball at his feet. He contributes in attack, in defense, and enables both teams to play suicidal high line. One of the things I especially like is he always throws the ball fast to restart the counter immediately before the opponent organizes their defense. He hasn't been able to directly assist some goals like in Schalke and in the German NT but it wasn't for the lack of trying.

If you've watched Barca-Atleti game yesterday, Ter Stegen didn't have to do shit. He sat in his box and passed the ball. Neuer, in a similar situation, would always find a way to be involve. That's a massive difference. He won't be content waiting for the opponent to attack.

Just remember that Neverkusen game in 2012. The craziest Neuer had been so far.

via Tapatalk
“If players weren’t human, I’d never lose.” ~El Loco
User avatar
runaway
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 3850
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:21 am
National Flag:
Philippines
Has thanked: 402 times
Been thanked: 1162 times

Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby JANCKER » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:42 pm

'Sweeper keeper' is fun when you win, so was 'tiki-taka'... It's for Neuer's good to not catch such names that no one knows the meaning.
Chilavert was a great FK taker... but that's it. :lol:
I agree that this is EVOLUTION, not REVOLUTION.

It's better when people call you the best of all time after you hang your boots. It takes only one mistake and 'sweeper keeper' is not that fun. Have you seen all the keepers of the past?
Here's my biased list of keepers that I saw playing: 1. Kahn and Neuer 2. Buffon 3. Schmeichel 4. van der Sar
These are my top 5 GK that I saw playing...
.........................................Image.........................................
User avatar
JANCKER
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 17386
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:03 am
Location: 710 miles SE from Allianz Arena
National Flag:
Basque Country
Has thanked: 9074 times
Been thanked: 8358 times
Gender: Male

Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby MUTU » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:00 pm

FCB general wrote:Still, he's not even close to GKs such as Ceni, Chilavert who were also the no. 1 PK and FK takers.

This is true, you mentioned goalkeepers who have been more adventurous than Neuer, but at the same time they never came anywhere as close to Neuer's goalkeeping skills. Of all the goalkeepers in football history who come close in pure goalkeeping skills to Neuer (eg Maier, Schmeichel, Kahn, Buffon, Casillas etc), no one can claim to be better than Neuer with the ball at his feet.
30GB free cloud storage. Click here for the referral.
User avatar
MUTU
Site Admin & EURO 2016 Prediction Game Winner
Site Admin & EURO 2016 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 30559
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: L-Imqabba, Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 5303 times
Been thanked: 7932 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby JANCKER » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:09 pm

It sounds to me like Neuer 'patented' GK footing skills... I don't like patents or Thomas Edison.
.........................................Image.........................................
User avatar
JANCKER
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 17386
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:03 am
Location: 710 miles SE from Allianz Arena
National Flag:
Basque Country
Has thanked: 9074 times
Been thanked: 8358 times
Gender: Male

Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby MUTU » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:14 pm

JANCKER wrote:It sounds to me like Neuer 'patented' GK footing skills... I don't like patents or Thomas Edison.

Well, take it this way. Others tried and failed, i.e. were ridiculed like Higuita was, or beaten quite easily when a quality keeper would have saved. But Neuer is THE FIRST goalkeeper in history who is both cheeky and able to skilfully protect his goal as well. No one is claiming Neuer is the first cheeky goalkeeper... there must have been loads of goalkeepers venturing outfield, especially in amateur football matches amongst friends etc.
30GB free cloud storage. Click here for the referral.
User avatar
MUTU
Site Admin & EURO 2016 Prediction Game Winner
Site Admin & EURO 2016 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 30559
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: L-Imqabba, Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 5303 times
Been thanked: 7932 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Manuel Neuer

Postby runaway » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:15 pm

Der Kaiser, Der Bomber, Der Käpitan, Raumdeuter are nicknames so what's so wrong with a tag? A lot of the informed football fans know that Neuer is not the first sweeper keeper but they do admit he does it best today. When people score goals etc don't Messi and Ronaldo not get a passing mention? Same goes for this skill which Neuer is clearly the best in doing today.

Whether Neuer is called something, there are and will always be people waiting for him to fail like against Inter. Guess how many years they've been waiting?

Let's define what is revolution? "a fundamental change in the way of thinking about or visualizing something"

We all know history right? No revolution occurs overnight. In the span of the WC to 2015, we can see that goalkeepers are getting more and more recognition and highlight reels for their actions more than shot stopping. More and more GKs all over the world rush out of the boxes and involves themselves in their teams' play. More and more GKs are shifting away from just the traditional goalkeeping duties and tries to become a proactive goalkeeper.

I've mentioned this before that in the Suzuki Cup the GK of my own NT and several GKs from South East Asian countries had rushed out of their lines and helped in defense. And the commentator exclaimed, "That's goalkeeping in 2014."

Now football fans are more critical and appreciative of the defensive players, especially goalkeepers. If there's anything Neuer can contribute so far in football, as per the article we've translated, it's to remove the stigma and bias against defensive players especially goalkeepers. If one day, both offensive players and defensive players are praised and awarded equally, people will consider Neuer's contributions in this movement; is that not a fundamental change in the way of thinking, ie a revolution?

via Tapatalk
Last edited by runaway on Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“If players weren’t human, I’d never lose.” ~El Loco
User avatar
runaway
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 3850
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:21 am
National Flag:
Philippines
Has thanked: 402 times
Been thanked: 1162 times

PreviousNext

Return to Bayern Player & Staff Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests