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Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby RedQueen » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:43 am

Looks like it. I imagine it's a difficult situation for Dr. Braun.

There's also kind of a cryptic answer in the interview. Asked what happened in Porto Rummenigge says there's medical confidentiality and there's dressing room confidentiality, and that we should leave it at that. I already wrote in the Porto thread that there's a rumor flying around that Ribery's prolonged absence isn't due to his ankle injury but something else that makes him unfit to play professional football, and that MW is covering up for him and Rummenigge is furious about it. We already know the row was about Ribery's injury.

Sportbild reported earlier that Killer-Kalle actually said in the dressing room the players shouldn't worry about the defeat, it was the medical department that was at fault.

I wonder did MW refuse to disclose details about Ribery's condition to the club? Is he obliged to disclose medical information to the club if it's not about a sport injury?
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby MatZam » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:09 am

RedQueen wrote:Killer-Kalle


:lol:

RedQueen wrote:I wonder did MW refuse to disclose details about Ribery's condition to the club? Is he obliged to disclose medical information to the club if it's not about a sport injury?


Depends what is on Ribery's contract, but I would imagine that any injuries that affect his ability to play have to be disclosed in one way or another, especially since most players have fitness-related clauses in their contracts. For example; Mueller stated in an interview a couple of months ago that despite his and his wife's love for horses, he is not allowed to ride them due to the risk of injury.

In the current situation it is now up to the new official club doctor to disclose any situation to the board. Ribery can naturally continue to see Mueller-Wohlfahrt in a private capacity, and in such a case I do not think Mueller-Wohlfahrt has any obligation towards the club.

I will admit that I have not followed this case as closely as I might have, especially due to my inability to read anything other than very basic German and thus relying on imperfect online translators. But the scenario that there is something going on apart from the 'normal' injuries is a plausible one, and one that Rummenigge would rightly be angry about.

We'll just have to see how things go on from here. The players are absolutely within their rights to continue to visit Mueller-Wohlfahrt, and for some particular cases such as Robben it might even be beneficial. But I would hope that they would also give some support and co-operation towards the new doctor, especially players such as Schweinsteiger, Mueller and Lahm, who are seen as the leaders of the team.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby Bayernbazi » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:17 am

As I mentioned at the time when the news broke it was handled terribly, angry people from the club firing statements without thinking and worse than that, blowing it to the media. Now it seems that some common sense seems to be kicking in.
Without knowing the details we were also wrong to blame one party or another, who would blame the frustration at the club by not knowing the status of one of its key assets ? not only not knowing if/when the player is returning but also affecting planning, do they go for a short term or permanent replacement ?
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby RedQueen » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:24 am

MatZam wrote:Depends what is on Ribery's contract, but I would imagine that any injuries that affect his ability to play have to be disclosed in one way or another, especially since most players have fitness-related clauses in their contracts.

If it's about injuries, yes. If it hasn't got anything to do with injuries at all, I think it wouldn't have to be disclosed, as then medical confidentiality applies as it does in any other employment contract. I think the scenario that something else is going on and the club doesn't know exactly what is wrong because MW refuses to disclose it is a VERY plausible one - would explain why it takes so long without a return date set, why no reasons are given, why Rummenigge is furious, why MW is talking about "damaged bonds of trust"...

Bayernbazi wrote:Without knowing the details we were also wrong to blame one party or another, who would blame the frustration at the club by not knowing the status of one of its key assets ? not only not knowing if/when the player is returning but also affecting planning do they go for a short term or permanent replacement ?

It's totally understandable. But that is the same situation every employer is in. A doctor still isn't obliged to disclose the condition his patient is suffering from to the employer. And if the return date is unknown, there's nothing the employer can do about it.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby Bayernbazi » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:19 am

RedQueen wrote:
Bayernbazi wrote:Without knowing the details we were also wrong to blame one party or another, who would blame the frustration at the club by not knowing the status of one of its key assets ? not only not knowing if/when the player is returning but also affecting planning do they go for a short term or permanent replacement ?

It's totally understandable. But that is the same situation every employer is in. A doctor still isn't obliged to disclose the condition his patient is suffering from to the employer. And if the return date is unknown, there's nothing the employer can do about it.


I understand the doctor's obligation. I am not a legal and don't know details about Labour Laws but can a contract be terminated because a player is unable to perform his duties any more due to a medical condition ? I am sure that there are jobs which carry this clause with them. Maybe the club tries to get it directly from the horse's mouth and have a straight talk with Ribery himself ?
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby RedQueen » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:34 am

Depends on the contract, I think. I imagine that regardless of the contract, like with any other employer the work relationship is terminated if a player is declared permanently incapacitated by a public health officer.

I've read a while ago that like other employers, clubs aren't obliged to pay the salary if the player is missing for more than 6 weeks. In this case the player receives a significantly reduced compensation from the insurance company / institution.

But that doesn't help Bayern a lot ATM. What they need isn't having the salary reduced or the contract terminated, they need a fit Ribery.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby MUTU » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:29 pm

RedQueen wrote:It's totally understandable. But that is the same situation every employer is in. A doctor still isn't obliged to disclose the condition his patient is suffering from to the employer. And if the return date is unknown, there's nothing the employer can do about it.

I'm not sure how it is in Germany, but here in Malta wherever I worked if you're sick you're required to hand in a doctor's certificate which contains the reason for absence and the date when one is fit to return to work. Basically, there's no way I could tell my employers "I'm sick but I'm not going to tell you what's wrong".
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby RedQueen » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:38 pm

It includes an expected return date and it says whether or not it's an occupational injury/illness, but no specification concerning the diagnosis. The copy for the insurance company includes the diagnosis. About the return date, if there are follow-up certificates again and again, that's about the same as if no return date is set.

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In Germany employers aren't allowed to inquire what illness the employee is suffering from.

I remember one case when I was about to tell the woman at the personnel department and she told me she wasn't supposed to know.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby MillaMjau » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:42 pm

I understood that Dr. Braun is only a temporary substitute before the club can reorganize the medical department. He was/is the team doctor for FCB II.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby MUTU » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:47 pm

RedQueen wrote:It includes an expected return date and it says whether or not it's an occupational injury/illness, but no specification concerning the diagnosis. The copy for the insurance company includes the diagnosis. About the return date, if there are follow-up certificates again and again, that's about the same as if no return date is set.

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In Germany employers aren't allowed to inquire what illness the employee is suffering from.

I remember one case when I was about to tell the woman at the personnel department and she told me she wasn't supposed to know.

Interesting, did not know this. Here in Malta one's privacy rights are far less. For example in a former workplace apart from the paper that the doctor gives you and signs (which includes the diagnosis), you had to fill in a paper form writing down what you were suffering from and sign it, for the HR department to file. In other former workplaces, a company doctor used to visit us when we were sick, examine us and report directly to the HR department indicating the diagnosis and expected return.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby MUTU » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:52 pm

MillaMjau wrote:I understood that Dr. Braun is only a temporary substitute before the club can reorganize the medical department.

This is correct.

MillaMjau wrote:He was/is the team doctor for FCB II.

Did not know this. What happens when FCB II play on the same day? For example on Tuesday FC Bayern II will play a few hours before the DFB Pokal, but thankfully both matches are home ones so he only needs to travel from one stadium to the other, within the same city.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby Atlantafc » Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:24 pm

Going to assume he goes for the first team..
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby Firefox1234 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:35 pm

Pep has it covered
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby MillaMjau » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:40 pm

MUTU wrote:
MillaMjau wrote:He was/is the team doctor for FCB II.

Did not know this. What happens when FCB II play on the same day? For example on Tuesday FC Bayern II will play a few hours before the DFB Pokal, but thankfully both matches are home ones so he only needs to travel from one stadium to the other, within the same city.


Sorry, I was a bit unclear. Not sure if he's still looking after also the FCB II now that he's appointed to the first team.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby MUTU » Sun May 03, 2015 9:51 am

Guardiola: "If a player is injured it's not the fault of the doctor. It happens in football and it's not the responsibility of the doctor. I don't have anything to complain about." [source]
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