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Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby sws » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:02 pm

ramsej84 wrote:I think that Pep made a lot of haters in the dressing room... I have a feeling that the German NT players are not with him anymore... If this really is the truth hope that they are not the ones to go...


Why do you say that? Lahm and Schweinsteiger both clearly love Pep and Lahm even said he wants to retire under him. Neuer seems to like him too, although I'm not sure about Gotze and Mueller, though.

Kroos even said that the only thing he misses about Bayern is Pep.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby sws » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:08 pm

Anyways, Bayern's recent injury history in comparison to some other clubs:

Image

We should look at the medical teams of Gladbach, Leverkusen and Wolfsburg and how they do it.
Last edited by sws on Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby RedQueen » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:08 pm

Neuer just told German public TV that it's a great pity because all the players like MW a lot.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby FCB general » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:31 pm

Comparing so called 'modern' medical stuff in the BuLi with Atletico and Valencia = LOL. Everything beyond 9-10% is bad.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby RedQueen » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:40 pm

As long as you don't factor in how many games these players play, and by that I mean including international games, such a comparison makes no sense at all. Comparisons between HSV or Stuttgart with Bayern are absurd. Other factors to be considered are the age of the players, the number of players in the squad, the type of injuries and so on and so forth. That's what we call "Milchmädchenrechnung" in Germany - milk maid's accounts.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby pyrasur » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:45 pm

RedQueen wrote:As long as you don't factor in how many games these players play, and by that I mean including international games, such a comparison makes no sense at all. Comparisons between HSV or Stuttgart with Bayern are absurd.


Any Buli side tbh doesn't have the representation Bayern have internationally, so even CL sides aren't getting the pounding Bayern are. Perhaps a look at similar sides like Chelsea and Real Madrid though? Though even then different leagues have different strains.
而剑法的最高境界,则是手中无剑,心中也无剑,是以大胸怀,包容一切。那便是不杀,便是和平。-英雄
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby runaway » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:48 pm

This thread is like watching CNN. Speculation speculation and even more speculation = conclusion.
Image

Correlation does not imply causation.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby sws » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:54 pm

RedQueen wrote:As long as you don't factor in how many games these players play, and by that I mean including international games, such a comparison makes no sense at all. Comparisons between HSV or Stuttgart with Bayern are absurd. Other factors to be considered are the age of the players, the number of players in the squad, the type of injuries and so on and so forth. That's what we call "Milchmädchenrechnung" in Germany - milk maid's accounts.

:-s
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby RedQueen » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:04 pm

A "milk maid's account" in German is an account that considers only the simplest of numbers and puts them together one by one, and thereby leads to results that are useless or make no sense.

If you're going to compare injury histories seriously, at the very least you'd have to consider how many minutes players played (and by that I mean played, not sat on the bench) regardless of whether it's league, CL, Cup, club friendlies or international games or international friendlies. Quite a number of our players (and Dortmund's players) picked up their injuries in international games. Schweinsteiger came back from the world cup battered, Badstuber picked up one against Georgia, Alaba against Bosnia and so on. If a player doesn't play international games or only sits on the bench, of course he can't get injured in these games. Younger players are on average less injury prone and if they get injured, they tend to recover faster, other things being equal. Hence the average age of your squad plays a role. Different styles of play in different leagues may also play a role. The faster the game, the higher is probably the injury risk. Then nothing is said in this table where the injuries were picked up. If a player falls down the stairs at home and breaks a leg, what has that got to do with his club? And so on and so forth. This comparison is far too superficial to get anything meaningful out of it.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby pyrasur » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:07 pm

runaway wrote:This thread is like watching CNN. Speculation speculation and even more speculation = conclusion.
Image

Correlation does not imply causation.


:lol: I just lol at the same bus
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby RedQueen » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:15 pm

Sammer says no one blamed Müller-Wohlfahrt or his team for anything. I fear that in the end this will all turn out to be one giant mess of misunderstandings. I wish Uli was there.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby pyrasur » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:30 pm

RedQueen wrote:I fear that in the end this will all turn out to be one giant mess of misunderstandings.


No. After 19 pages of posts, I want heads. SOMEONE better be responsible! :lol:

Sigh...Honestly it probably was an overreaction but it's also probably a matter of something wasn't clicking. Change is inevitable and when it comes, even when things get better, some things get worse before they get better. Ugh I just want to go back to bed and remember the beginning of the season when everything was bright for Bayern and Germany had won the World Cup. That should have been enough happiness to sustain me for years.
而剑法的最高境界,则是手中无剑,心中也无剑,是以大胸怀,包容一切。那便是不杀,便是和平。-英雄
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby sws » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:53 pm

RedQueen wrote:A "milk maid's account" in German is an account that considers only the simplest of numbers and puts them together one by one, and thereby leads to results that are useless or make no sense.

If you're going to compare injury histories seriously, at the very least you'd have to consider how many minutes players played (and by that I mean played, not sat on the bench) regardless of whether it's league, CL, Cup, club friendlies or international games or international friendlies. Quite a number of our players (and Dortmund's players) picked up their injuries in international games. Schweinsteiger came back from the world cup battered, Badstuber picked up one against Georgia, Alaba against Bosnia and so on. If a player doesn't play international games or only sits on the bench, of course he can't get injured in these games. Younger players are on average less injury prone and if they get injured, they tend to recover faster, other things being equal. Hence the average age of your squad plays a role. Different styles of play in different leagues may also play a role. The faster the game, the higher is probably the injury risk. Then nothing is said in this table where the injuries were picked up. If a player falls down the stairs at home and breaks a leg, what has that got to do with his club? And so on and so forth. This comparison is far too superficial to get anything meaningful out of it.


That makes no sense. That's like if I showed you this graph and saying that there can be no conclusions drawn because the quality of pitch and the type of goal isn't accounted for, you know things you can't really even quantify into anything fit for a graph like this:

Image

So, are you saying that by looking at this^ graph you couldn't say that on average Messi contributes a bigger percentage of goals to his team than the other players? Or ask why Suarez's number changed so dractically? Why and how, are related but completely different questions, that can be answered by inspecting each case further but to say it's worthless is wrong.

Basically how the graph from before works is that you look at each player during each match. During this season for Bayern, with a squad size of 25, means 850 data points will have to be looked at. Let's say that's the average, that means over 85,000 data points was taken into account of making this graph for all clubs.

The graph isn't "Comparison of various Medical Teams". For each box, the percent represents basically the average percentage of the squad that was injured during any given match day. Sure, Basti and Alaba could be injured due to unforeseen circumstances but one player can only have a maximum of 4% influence (for a 25 man squad). Even if they had missed 0 matchdays due to injury this season, the difference would only be about 3%. Or, even if Diaby had never missed his 129 games in the last few seasons the difference is only about 2%.

Basically there are many things can can we weaned from the graph. Why is it that so many Bundesliga teams are near the top? I guess this might show that it really is more of a physical league than others. Is it because the refs are more lenient with rough play? Why is there such a big spike from last season to this season in general? Is it because it's the season after a WC? Juventus went from 14.5% to 2.6% form one year, that can't be a coincidence, can it? Was it a change of medical team? Was it an increase in depth?

How big is this seasons crisis? In fact worse than any of these teams have had in the last 5 years. Why is that? Is it because of the WC? Is it because of an aging squad? Is it because of squad size? Change in training? Why is it that in general the injury rate for Bayern is very high? If there is a trend then it should be looked at. Could it be the medical squad? The physios? Are we rushing the players in too early? Is it the style of play? Are we just buying injury prone players?

The thing is, it's all about trends and in no way is it only looking at only the simplest of numbers.
Last edited by sws on Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby Anna_French6 » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:50 am

ramsej84 wrote:I think that Pep made a lot of haters in the dressing room... I have a feeling that the German NT players are not with him anymore... If this really is the truth hope that they are not the ones to go...



Pep might need a doctor for his own injuries pretty soon. :?
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby pyrasur » Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:13 am

Woah.


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