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Official generic player & staff discussion

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Re: Official generic player & staff discussion

Postby MUTU » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:23 am

IsiahRashad wrote:will be Bayern consider as a top european club if we've got 2 CL trophies since 1993 ?

Let me answer your question with one of my own.

How many clubs have won 2 or more CL trophies since 1993 and are currently playing at least on the same level as Bayern?
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Re: Official generic player & staff discussion

Postby IsiahRashad » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:30 am

MUTU wrote:
IsiahRashad wrote:will be Bayern consider as a top european club if we've got 2 CL trophies since 1993 ?

Let me answer your question with one of my own.

How many clubs have won 2 or more CL trophies since 1993 and are currently playing at least on the same level as Bayern?


This is easy.I'm going with Real,Barca and United.
But that's why i put the "Leave the Bundesliga" thing on.Lately (after 2014 and 2015) it's easy to say that no matter how many times we're going to win the domestic title,we're going to be outplayed on the european scene.

Given the fact,imagine today's Bayern against Real,Barca or United.
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Re: Official generic player & staff discussion

Postby MUTU » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:41 am

IsiahRashad wrote:
MUTU wrote:
IsiahRashad wrote:will be Bayern consider as a top european club if we've got 2 CL trophies since 1993 ?

Let me answer your question with one of my own.

How many clubs have won 2 or more CL trophies since 1993 and are currently playing at least on the same level as Bayern?


This is easy.I'm going with Real,Barca and United.
But that's why i put the "Leave the Bundesliga" thing on.Lately (after 2014 and 2015) it's easy to say that no matter how many times we're going to win the domestic title,we're going to be outplayed on the european scene.

Given the fact,imagine today's Bayern against Real,Barca or United.

United better than Bayern just because they just managed to qualify for the Champions League? Well, OK, let's say they are better though I strongly disagree.

That means you mentioned 3 clubs ahead of Bayern.

Wouldn't 4th out of tens (or hundreds?) of thousands of registered clubs in Europe be considered "top" in your books?
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Re: Official generic player & staff discussion

Postby Mani » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:12 am

United better loool
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Re: Official generic player & staff discussion

Postby IsiahRashad » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:22 am

MUTU wrote:United better than Bayern just because they just managed to qualify for the Champions League? Well, OK, let's say they are better though I strongly disagree.

That means you mentioned 3 clubs ahead of Bayern.

Wouldn't 4th out of tens (or hundreds?) of thousands of registered clubs in Europe be considered "top" in your books?


You say "at least on the same level as Bayern",but it doesn't matter.As much i don't like them,i should say that United are playing on another level this season.Just look at the stats of Lukaku,Matic,Miky and Marcial.Even Fellaini is playing like a pro player.

Yes,you're right.We all know that Bayern is one of the top clubs in the World.This is not my case.My problem is that we're going outplayed by teams which are currently not in top 5,10,20 or 30 in the list that we're looking at.

My question was more..let's say theoretical.The answer for me is that we're winning the domestic title,we think that we've have a super team,but when we play against the big guys from the other leagues,they are cutting our wings.

We all know that our team is moving in the wrong direction in the last couple of years,and i was trying to say that we should not only put all our negativism against the coach and some of the players.As i said earlier,change in the philosophy (in the whole league) is the most necessary thing to do,before the gap between the german clubs and the other big league clubs is..too big.And,some of the guys will say-Yeah,but Germany is producing the most talented guys lately.I can agree ot that.But what's the point to produce a talent,when you're going to make a small profit from him (just look how City and Real are spending for a 16 and 17 YO players from Brazil),when after 1 good season probably he's going to play in England,Spain,France or for Juventus or Milan.When you can make 2x more money just from TV right's in CL.Of course you're going to get more money from TV rights when you're not selling you're best players to another teams.

Champions League: BT extends TV rights until 2021 in deal worth £1.2bn [source]


I think we should look at the bigger picture.And,10 minutes ago you post that Germany is now in 4th place in coefficient rankings.
Maybe i'm looking too deep on things,but it's obvious that the german model is not working lately.
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Re: Official generic player & staff discussion

Postby PunkCapitalist » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:45 am

IsiahRashad wrote:
MUTU wrote:United better than Bayern just because they just managed to qualify for the Champions League? Well, OK, let's say they are better though I strongly disagree.

That means you mentioned 3 clubs ahead of Bayern.

Wouldn't 4th out of tens (or hundreds?) of thousands of registered clubs in Europe be considered "top" in your books?


You say "at least on the same level as Bayern",but it doesn't matter.As much i don't like them,i should say that United are playing on another level this season.Just look at the stats of Lukaku,Matic,Miky and Marcial.Even Fellaini is playing like a pro player.

Yes,you're right.We all know that Bayern is one of the top clubs in the World.This is not my case.My problem is that we're going outplayed by teams which are currently not in top 5,10,20 or 30 in the list that we're looking at.

My question was more..let's say theoretical.The answer for me is that we're winning the domestic title,we think that we've have a super team,but when we play against the big guys from the other leagues,they are cutting our wings.

We all know that our team is moving in the wrong direction in the last couple of years,and i was trying to say that we should not only put all our negativism against the coach and some of the players.As i said earlier,change in the philosophy (in the whole league) is the most necessary thing to do,before the gap between the german clubs and the other big league clubs is..too big.And,some of the guys will say-Yeah,but Germany is producing the most talented guys lately.I can agree ot that.But what's the point to produce a talent,when you're going to make a small profit from him (just look how City and Real are spending for a 16 and 17 YO players from Brazil),when after 1 good season probably he's going to play in England,Spain,France or for Juventus or Milan.When you can make 2x more money just from TV right's in CL.Of course you're going to get more money from TV rights when you're not selling you're best players to another teams.

Champions League: BT extends TV rights until 2021 in deal worth £1.2bn [source]


I think we should look at the bigger picture.And,10 minutes ago you post that Germany is now in 4th place in coefficient rankings.
Maybe i'm looking too deep on things,but it's obvious that the german model is not working lately.
I agree. The whole of the Bundesliga has been in steep decline since 2013-2015ish.

Bayern's case is very different to other BuLi teams, but still should be mentioned. We lost half a generation with Guardiola and stand to lose the other half if the board doesn't act NOW.

For BVB's decline were actually somehow guilty, but the turning point for me was the Mhkitaryan-Hummels-Gündogan summer. On Tuchel's first season BVB played (IMO) the most beautiful fluid attacking football in the whole of Europe. Reus-Aubameyang-Mhkitaryan as front men in Tuchel's 433 was just delightful to watch. The results were also there, except for a the bizarre loss against a mediocre Liverpool in the EL. Tuchel's second season was a major step down; the attack went from fluid, mobile and combinatorial, to a more talent, individualist and dribble-based approach emphasizing Dembele. Anyway, they missed a major opportunity on that summer. I expect them to decline further for assorted reasons.

Leverkusen and Schalke... Well underperformance is a staple for them, but them letting every single player worth anything leave is just downright pathetic. Neverkusen lost Chicharito, their marketing star and probably best player, leave for some random club... effing Westhamshire United or whatever...

Wolfsburg seemed to be stepping into the 2-3rd in BuLi role with KDB, but they were doomed the moment they let him go. Perisic demanded to go as well, and Ricardo Rodriguez was always gonna follow suit. Oh, and Draxler; that whole affair was pretty pathetic (and Draxler being little more than a mediocre player made it even more pathetic). They are now a bad team again. Lost their chance.

BuLi teams really really need to rethink how to keep their players. 50+, marketing, whatever... Time to think things through... Ultimately, no one respects a guy who doesn't make himself be respected. When BuLi teams allow teams to come by and take whatever they want like Germany is their shopping mall, that leads to players being disrespectful of the clubs and making demands... Like Draxler, Gündogan, Mhkitaryan, Aubameyang, KDB, et al...

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Re: Official generic player & staff discussion

Postby IsiahRashad » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:57 pm

IsiahRashad wrote:
MUTU wrote:United better than Bayern just because they just managed to qualify for the Champions League? Well, OK, let's say they are better though I strongly disagree.

That means you mentioned 3 clubs ahead of Bayern.

Wouldn't 4th out of tens (or hundreds?) of thousands of registered clubs in Europe be considered "top" in your books?


You say "at least on the same level as Bayern",but it doesn't matter.As much i don't like them,i should say that United are playing on another level this season.Just look at the stats of Lukaku,Matic,Miky and Marcial.Even Fellaini is playing like a pro player.

Yes,you're right.We all know that Bayern is one of the top clubs in the World.This is not my case.My problem is that we're going outplayed by teams which are currently not in top 5,10,20 or 30 in the list that we're looking at.

My question was more..let's say theoretical.The answer for me is that we're winning the domestic title,we think that we've have a super team,but when we play against the big guys from the other leagues,they are cutting our wings.

We all know that our team is moving in the wrong direction in the last couple of years,and i was trying to say that we should not only put all our negativism against the coach and some of the players.As i said earlier,change in the philosophy (in the whole league) is the most necessary thing to do,before the gap between the german clubs and the other big league clubs is..too big.And,some of the guys will say-Yeah,but Germany is producing the most talented guys lately.I can agree ot that.But what's the point to produce a talent,when you're going to make a small profit from him (just look how City and Real are spending for a 16 and 17 YO players from Brazil),when after 1 good season probably he's going to play in England,Spain,France or for Juventus or Milan.When you can make 2x more money just from TV right's in CL.Of course you're going to get more money from TV rights when you're not selling you're best players to another teams.

Champions League: BT extends TV rights until 2021 in deal worth £1.2bn [source]


I think we should look at the bigger picture.And,10 minutes ago you post that Germany is now in 4th place in coefficient rankings.
Maybe i'm looking too deep on things,but it's obvious that the german model is not working lately.
So, we did the first step.
I think a lot of people will think that with only one change, the whole story is going to be a great one again.

Again, I have one appeal - don't forget the big picture.

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Re: Official generic player & staff discussion

Postby FCB12Forever » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:20 am

I think you still need to have money to start with. Earlier I posted an article elsewhere, written by Uersfeld, he said a lot of clubs are dissatisfied with the 50_1 rule and they have secret links with potential investors, or have received money already. Say, Hertha received 60m from a Silicon-Valley based investment company in 2014 or 2015. this is his tweet today:

Can't see tweet? Click here!

I think it means "BL should have acted and solved the investor problem in 2013. Now we are acting from a weaker position."

I think what he means is , when you are strong, investors are more likely to come. When you are not that, um...

But anyway, probably he's also implying things are changing already.
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Re: Official generic player & staff discussion

Postby #12 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:13 pm

Hoeness RAUS!
Dummenigge RAUS!!
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Re: Official generic player & staff discussion

Postby JANCKER » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:42 pm

Yeah, because it's them who don't know how to defend.
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Re: Official generic player & staff discussion

Postby #12 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:52 pm

JANCKER wrote:Yeah, because it's them who don't know how to defend.


It's them who sent us into a season with NO attack whatsoever... With that piece of shit coach... And with Ulreich...
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Re: Official generic player & staff discussion

Postby JANCKER » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:54 pm

Just look at the goals we're conceding, our defense is worst than our attack... they're no defense, they're holes.
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Re: Official generic player & staff discussion

Postby #12 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:58 pm

Well, quality is much higher on defense... Again, defensive organization is a coaches job
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Re: Official generic player & staff discussion

Postby Ed. » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:34 pm

Mani wrote:United better loool


You can LOL all you want but they'd knock out Bayern over a 2 leg tie right now.

Unless they run into Real Madrid or City , they are making it further than Bayern in the CL this year. Their squad is decent and they've now got Mourinho (who I detest btw) who is not going to give an inch in the big games.

From relative mediocrity they've gone to a contender with a few marguee signing and the Mourinho effect of getting extra from the other average players.
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Re: Official generic player & staff discussion

Postby #12 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:06 pm

We should get off our high horses... It's not 2013 and even then I had big respect for almost any opponent we faced in that competition...
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