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Carlo Ancelotti

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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Coman » Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:18 am

ottackon wrote:We live in a world of the ephemeral, the moment, the volatility, a liquid society.
Just the idea that it may take time to rebuild a competitive team with the own ideas of the new coach, is inconceivable to some. No, when you have some very talented players, you have to win everything, play beautifully and crush every opponent who dares defying us, as if it were a video game where the human factor does not exist. In short, I don't know if Bayern is victim of its own success, but the mentality of fans has changed, worse, there is even an infantilization in the reaction of supporters : Wanting everything immediately, and crying when your toy is broken, it's unbearable.


Then let's talk about nothing.

The forum should be delete.

Or let's talk about what is going wrong, even if it was only 2 months the coach is here.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby ottackon » Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:29 am

You go from one extreme to another, whining like a baby or deleting the forum, this is exactly what I'm talking about.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Coman » Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:46 am

ottackon wrote:You go from one extreme to another, whining like a baby or deleting the forum, this is exactly what I'm talking about.


I talk about football when you don't want to talk about it. That's the main difference even if you are right about the fact a coach need time. It's not because of that we shouldn't talk about all the thing who go wrong.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby envagyokazapad » Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:16 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:
JANCKER wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote:I don't hear you bullshitting that Pep offers continuity to Jupp's work.


It can't be continuity


But according to you it IS a continuity, simply because Pep claimed that it is, right? Wasn't that what you were just saying with Ancelotti? You even linked me the quote!

Anyway, an idiot could see that Ancelotti's choice of Mueller at RW basically shits on Pep's system just as Pep did with your double pivot. Pep always had Mueller, a striker and two wingers at any given time, just as Jupp did even though the midfields were very different. This is already as big a fundamental difference as single pivot vs. double pivot. You don't use Mueller properly, you don't succeed at Bayern.


I'm pretty sure Müller played a fair bit of RW under Jupp. He basically benched Robben. When Kroos got injured then he started playing in the middle and Robben got his RW position back. That's not to say the two coaches use him the same way, but to say Müller always played in the middle under Jupp is just not true.

As far as I recall, at some point Müller played his best games on the right. We even claimed he shouldn't play as a striker but a winger - it was only under Pep that Müller started shining in a kind of a "SS" role next to Lewa.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Dumbledore7 » Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:24 am

envagyokazapad wrote:I'm pretty sure Müller played a fair bit of RW under Jupp. He basically benched Robben. When Kroos got injured then he started playing in the middle and Robben got his RW position back. That's not to say the two coaches use him the same way, but to say Müller always played in the middle under Jupp is just not true.

As far as I recall, at some point Müller played his best games on the right. We even claimed he shouldn't play as a striker but a winger - it was only under Pep that Müller started shining in a kind of a "SS" role next to Lewa.


You're right, but he was an RW in a midfield-destroying 4231 formation, when the LW and CAM were superb chance creators. The way Ancelotti uses him now, it will NEVER work. It could if he switches back to 4231.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Dumbledore7 » Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:26 am

ottackon wrote:We live in a world of the ephemeral, the moment, the volatility, a liquid society.
Just the idea that it may take time to rebuild a competitive team with the own ideas of the new coach, is inconceivable to some. No, when you have some very talented players, you have to win everything, play beautifully and crush every opponent who dares defying us, as if it were a video game where the human factor does not exist. In short, I don't know if Bayern is victim of its own success, but the mentality of fans has changed, worse, there is even an infantilization in the reaction of supporters : Wanting everything immediately, and crying when your toy is broken, it's unbearable.


As someone who's been very critical the last couple of games, I'm like this towards Ancelotti simply because his predecessor didn't need any time at all to "win everything, play beautifully and crush every opponent who dares defying us". Even though he had two draws in the Bundesliga early in his first season (Leverkusen and...Freiburg?), I liked what I saw on the pitch, I understood his ideas. Currently I have no idea what Ancelotti is doing.

Pep had my expectation at an almost unreasonable standard, so I'll hold any of the succeeding coaches to the same bar. Though as always, I will change my mind depending what comes at the later part of the season. To put it simply, I want to be at least as satisfied with Ancelotti as I was with Pep. If not, then I won't be happy and will complain.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:33 am

envagyokazapad wrote:As far as I recall, at some point Müller played his best games on the right. We even claimed he shouldn't play as a striker but a winger - it was only under Pep that Müller started shining in a kind of a "SS" role next to Lewa.

Yes, but the problem here is something I mentioned during EURO 2016. In fact, Muller was a good RW until the WC too. But now he's spent so long playing in a different position that we can't expect him to go back to being great on the wing in no time at all.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby ottackon » Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:07 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:As someone who's been very critical the last couple of games, I'm like this towards Ancelotti simply because his predecessor didn't need any time at all to "win everything, play beautifully and crush every opponent who dares defying us". Even though he had two draws in the Bundesliga early in his first season (Leverkusen and...Freiburg?), I liked what I saw on the pitch, I understood his ideas. Currently I have no idea what Ancelotti is doing.

I want to remind you that Pep's first season was the most boring of his reign at Bayern with the exception of some memorable matches.

Dumbledore7 wrote:Pep had my expectation at an almost unreasonable standard, so I'll hold any of the succeeding coaches to the same bar. Though as always, I will change my mind depending what comes at the later part of the season. To put it simply, I want to be at least as satisfied with Ancelotti as I was with Pep. If not, then I won't be happy and will complain.

I'm still unable to understand how one can reasonably complain this much about Ancelotti and expect Bayern to peak like crazy after 9 competitive matches, this is just beyond me.
Bear in mind that permanent satisfaction towards your team or favourite player is a concept impossible to achieve in sport. We're in a reshaping phase at the moment, and we're yet to see the finished product.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Dumbledore7 » Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:18 pm

Understandable that you'd said that, but I was perfectly happy with Pep over his first few weeks. I'm not happy with Ancelotti, so naturally the comparisons come. Yes it's not how we start, it's how we finish but I'm still not enjoying how we start. Football is an entertainment before it's anything else - I'm not entertained, I'm not satisfied.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby ottackon » Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:37 pm

Well, sorry to tell you that my friend, but this is the attitude of a consumer, not a club supporter.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Dumbledore7 » Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:07 pm

Surely staying through dissatisfaction is part of supporting because otherwise I'd switch clubs the instant something's wrong. I'm not even calling for any changes, I'm literally just stating that I'm not enjoying it just as one would celebrate after a win.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby ottackon » Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:23 pm

I'm not happy either with this week's results and overall level of play, but it's just the way it is, everything is cyclical in life as in football, I'm sure though we will practice a much better football in the coming months, it is only a matter of time.
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Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Firefox1234 » Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:47 pm

It's almost refreshing to see the former Pep haters getting in a hissy fit and maybe realizing that Pep was a pretty damn good manager

I think Carlo will get it right but it's too early for me to get pissy about anything...
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby envagyokazapad » Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:51 pm

In the CL, all you have to do is get through the group, preferably in the first place - as long as form peaks during the second part of the season for the knockout games...
We barely dropped points in the league, which requires more consistency. So far, nothing looks bad...we played some boring and not so great games under Jupp too. The key is to peak for the most important games. This is the most important thing in my opinion...there are only about 4-5 games every season you have to bring your best in (when you are Bayern quality).

Pep was a great coach, but we peaked far too early every season (it wasn't so bad last season - but still). Nonetheless, the kind of consistency we had in the league under Pep - I don't think we'll see this again, but this may be the cost of having a coach who can actually deliver a CL title.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby quaazi » Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:14 pm

A player drilled in automations, capable of picking solutions without great individual output, will always remain more consistent than the player left to his own devices. The hope here being that those devices are what can make the difference come April by which the team should be so tight from all the box socials that they'll kill (the BBVA) spaniards on sight. Until then, there's no real point worrying too much - I thought the BuLi title to be forfeit the moment we signed Ancelotti, though Dortmund is doing all they can to hand us the title on a platter (a smaller platter) so far.

Pity we're so dull to watch most of the time though. :/
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