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Carlo Ancelotti

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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby MoFattal » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:42 am

Carlo is a reasonable man. I do believe he will try to change things up in the coming weeks. He now has almost the full team at his disposal, so he can start tweaking around to get the best out of the squad. Earlier, he was limited by the big number of injuries we had. I trust that we will be seeing some different tactics in the upcoming few games.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby quaazi » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:07 pm

Formations =/= tactics.
The ideal team

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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby MoFattal » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:14 pm

Sure. He can still use his beloved 4-3-3 formation, but throw in Muller in place of, say, Alonso and we have ourselves a totally different tactic.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby tflags » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:40 pm

MUTU wrote:Don't change the subject. You said results were better under Guardiola. Anything else is rather opinion-based, but one thing you can't argue on is that Ancelotti has achieved better results so far. Just one 1-0 loss to an otherwise-perfect record-breaking start doesn't make his results inferior.


All comparisons aside, and not to over-stress a point against Carletto; but it wasn't only the lack of stamina from the players or "Boateng losing control on Carrasco" (Sir Ancelott, last night). There were indeed quite a few more issues at play.

Muller pointed out, quite rightly so, Bayern had no midfield. For a 3 central-midfielder formation this certainly looked out of control. Both Thiago and Vidal coped very little with Alonso's overwhelming tasks due to the incessant pressing on build up - a tactic confirmed by Simeone explicitly yesterday: "Game was extremely clear on that. With Fernando (Torres) we tried to stop Alonso's start and the first touch from Vidal we had nullified with Griezmann's work."

Problem is, I commented the very same thing on the game vs Ingolstadt. Simeone - TZ backs me up on this - copied IIngolstadt's and Schalke's forward-pressing, diamond-formation to stop Bayern's build up ex-Neuer. Conclusion: Carletto has played two games already without coping with high pressing teams.

Then there were the counters. When Bayern did manage to pull through that Dortmund-grade maze of midfielders the turnovers were too common too fast. On counter, Carletto didn't use the defenders to his advantage: I recall - from memory - a single offside call. Result: The back line was too far back and didn't take advantage to overrule attackers on through balls.

Then of course is the fact that Carletto needs more time to impose his style argument. Quite right so, as any manager would. Thing is after two CL matches Bayern still out-possess any other team including Barza. If a change is coming, I don't see it possession-wise.

The winner? Pep, I say. Funny part is he was blamed for losing against Atlético mainly for leaving Muller on the bench. Muller played last night; and then he went straight to the bench. :P . Just say'n.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby PunkCapitalist » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:00 pm

Pep left out Müller cause he was being cautious and wanted an extra midfielder. At that time, he wasn't at his very best, but the clash came in the context of his best season ever.

Carlo took him out because he wasn't working. His form is miserable, and he hasn't found the way to work on our new 433.

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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Coman » Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:09 pm

quaazi wrote:Formations =/= tactics.


True.

But different players with differents quality in other position = tactics.
For good football : Neuer - Kimmich, Boateng, Hummels, Alaba - Vidal (Tolisso), Thiago (Tolisso) - Robben, Müller (James), James (Ribéry) - Lewandowski

For boring football : 4-3-3
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Dumbledore7 » Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:25 pm

One more match like that and he's a fraud.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Coman » Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:30 pm

All our hopes about seing a Bayern like under Heynckes and not under Guardiola are so far away right now...
For good football : Neuer - Kimmich, Boateng, Hummels, Alaba - Vidal (Tolisso), Thiago (Tolisso) - Robben, Müller (James), James (Ribéry) - Lewandowski

For boring football : 4-3-3
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Coman » Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:11 pm

What Ancelotti is doing wrong :

- The way to play.

We had Van Gaal who give the first touch of possession football with half success.
We had Heynckes who keep this possession football and had verticalities, counter-attacks, power with full success.
We had Guardiola who destroy Heynckes bases to install a full possession team with half success or no success comparing to Heynckes and the players he had.
We now have Ancelotti. We all wanted he keep possession football and adds a lot of things like Heynckes did, but for now except against Hambourg and a really poor Werder team, we just see a poor copy of Guardiola's system.

- The uncapacity to change this way when needed

That's something we can see in big games only. It's normal a team and club like Bayern controls the game against bad or average opponents. But against others bigs team, we have to play another way if needed.

Under Heynckes, when Bayern played against a bad or average team, the possession was very high (60% to 68%). And when it was a great team, all change. We played against Arsenal with 50/55%, same for Juventus.. and against FC Barcelona ? 35%.

Something changed against Atletico ? No. Still same useless possession system against a really good defensive team.

- The system (4-3-3)

The system changes with the player. A 4-3-3 with a midfielder Vidal, Alonso, Thiago would be a lot more deep on the field than a midfielder with Vidal, Kimmich and Müller who would be more vertical.

Same for the wings, with Costa, Robben or Ribéry, difference can be make and speed is useful while with Müller ... no. And I don't even talk about partenership between our true winger and Lahm / Alaba.

Ancelotti wants full-back who attacks, this is great ... but when both attacks, thats mean our midfielder have to cover them and playe deeper.

This is something I saw many many time this season :

Image

Yes the middle is empty and our attacking players have to playe deeper.. then : no danger.

While with only ONE change (Costa instead of Alonso) and only one full-back who attacks at the time, all can change :

Image

This is Ancelotti role to correct that.

- Thinking Alonso can play 80% of the game like if he is 30 years old.

I really like Alonso and his career. He can play, even big game, like he did last season against Atletico ... but to play at such an intensity he has to be rest the game before or two games before.
For good football : Neuer - Kimmich, Boateng, Hummels, Alaba - Vidal (Tolisso), Thiago (Tolisso) - Robben, Müller (James), James (Ribéry) - Lewandowski

For boring football : 4-3-3
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Achilles » Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:32 pm

@Coman
I recommend you to go for vacations immediately, turn off your smartphones,internet,wifi everything and just take some time off man, you must be ill or something because I stopped reading to the coaches comparisons.

How the hell can somebody compare the 2-year spell of LvG, 2-year spell of Heynckes and the 3-year spell of Guardiola to 2-month spell of Ancelotti!

This is madness, there is absolutely no ground to compare anyone to anybody, your hate towards Ancelotti or love towards Guardiola ruins you.
How old are you really?
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Coman » Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:34 pm

Achilles wrote:@Coman
I recommend you to go for vacations immediately, turn off your smartphones,internet,wifi everything and just take some time off man, you must be ill or something because I stopped reading to the coaches comparisons.

How the hell can somebody compare the 2-year spell of LvG, 2-year spell of Heynckes and the 3-year spell of Guardiola to 2-month spell of Ancelotti!

This is madness, there is absolutely no ground to compare anyone to anybody, your hate towards Ancelotti or love towards Guardiola ruins you.
How old are you really?


Your comment is useless because :

- I just said what is wrong right now.
-I just wait for Ancelotti to fix that.

Nothing else.

I'm not writing all my post with full details for a crap reply like yours.

I'm not saying "#OUTCARLO" or else.

And you ask how old I'm ? What a joke where the only kid crying and complaining about my post for ... nothing ... is you.

You can go for vacations too now.
For good football : Neuer - Kimmich, Boateng, Hummels, Alaba - Vidal (Tolisso), Thiago (Tolisso) - Robben, Müller (James), James (Ribéry) - Lewandowski

For boring football : 4-3-3
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Dumbledore7 » Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:44 pm

Achilles wrote:@Coman
I recommend you to go for vacations immediately, turn off your smartphones,internet,wifi everything and just take some time off man, you must be ill or something because I stopped reading to the coaches comparisons.

How the hell can somebody compare the 2-year spell of LvG, 2-year spell of Heynckes and the 3-year spell of Guardiola to 2-month spell of Ancelotti!

This is madness, there is absolutely no ground to compare anyone to anybody, your hate towards Ancelotti or love towards Guardiola ruins you.
How old are you really?


Lol what? He doesn't even like Pep and you sound like you're on your period. Why the aggresive response?
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby JANCKER » Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:03 pm

Carlo offers continuity to Pep's work, I don't see why Pep fans are turning against him? Only because his name is Carlo and not Pep? It's the same as under Pep, we're struggling with the same things.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Dumbledore7 » Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:07 pm

JANCKER wrote:Carlo offers continuity to Pep's work, I don't see why Pep fans are turning against him? Only because his name is Carlo and not Pep? It's the same as under Pep, we're struggling with the same things.


Why make a post with the sole intention to try rile people up? It's completely different. Pep's football was good, Ancelotti's football now is shit.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby JANCKER » Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:09 pm

JANCKER wrote:
Ancelotti: 'There wasn't a lot to change' [source]


Read what Ancelotti said... he needs to change if he doesn't want to **** up in the same places Pep did.
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