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Carlo Ancelotti

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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Jorge » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:27 am

Achilles wrote:
MUTU wrote:This is probably way too early, but many of us here (myself included) pointed fingers at Guardiola for failing to take Bayern to the CL final and always getting eliminated at the semifinal to a Spanish club.
Well, guess what, despite the misfortune shrouding the encounters against Real Madrid, Ancelotti failed to even take us to the semifinal, also being eliminated by a Spanish club.
I really don't know what to make of this. Clearly, with neither Guardiola nor Ancelotti has the team reached the same levels of dominance they had in 2013 under Heynckes.

If you completely sterilise the facts it's exactly like that but at the same time it's unfair. Pep Guardiola's team and tactics hurt the team and failed miserably two out of three occasions. I enjoyed Guardiola's CL Bayern only his last year where the mentality was right and most of the tactics or subs flourished and helped the team. What Bayern did yesterday was great and what Bayern of 2016 against Atletico did was great too but unfortunately wasn't enough, I hate to lose but at least we can leave with our pride intact and not ashamed. With Guardiola holding the wheel we got embarassed and humiliated in two occasions. Ancelotti's Bayern made two wins away from home at Emirates and Bernabeu, fought back against Real scoring 3 while having at least 4 another opportunities to score while Pep's Bayern against Real was absolutely the worst Bayern in the history regarding performance and scoreboard. Knocked out two times against Madrid, yes, it's the same? Of course not you simplified in a very ugly way and I completely disagree, I couldn't even imagine if Pep was to play against Madrid for 60min with 10-men what could happen.

Pep had three years to deliver, we didn't judge him harsh since his first day, give Ancelotti his 3-years and then we can talk.


Also do not forget that Pep inherited a treble winning team in his first season, obviously not his players but a team of winners, a proven concept. It was his choice to change the way that team played. Then in his last two seasons he had the opportunity to influence the board on the sale and purchase of certain players to shape the team according to his tactics and football philosophy. The team became more his own and he was outplayed and outsmarted outside the Bundesliga, even in the Bundesliga at times when he faced meaningful competition.

Ancelotti inherited a team that it is basically Pep's team even in the way it still plays some possession pushing lines forward at times (which is not necessarily good of bad, just reality), a team that is coming from 3 frustrating European campaigns. It will be interesting to see how we will do next season without Lahm and Alonso, both miles below the level of player that they both once were. Somehow I feel that Ancelotti had too much respect for both, same for Robben and Ribbery, it just that in some of these cases it was the right decision, in others it wasn't, the poor form of Costa and Coman could be at the expense of enhancing the status of our aging stars as well.

Next season it will interesting to see how our player's pool unfolds and aligns with a team that will be more Ancelotti's than this one which was more a historical team coming to an end. Kimmich and Sanches will have a more important role, the addition of Süle and Rudy will add a depth that we did not have this time. It will be interesting to see what players will be sold, is there a place for Bernat or even Martinez? What will be the new signings this summer? Does Costa have the right mindset to remain a Bayern player? What will be Muller's role in the team? Can Thiago become that world crack that can carry the team in big games? I am under the impression that there will be a few surprises this summer.

Overall, we should do better next year, but even more we could be in contention for better things the year after. Most of us who did not like Guardiola from the beginning always thought that the team was going to get better in his third season, and in certain ways it did but his project was not taking us anywhere.

If I take something from this season is not that we were knocked out in the quarterfinals, for me that's irrelevant. I take that we came across as highly competitive in the biggest games of the season, tactically solid and motivated and we were not run over by what seems to be the best team in the world right now. There was a fighting spirit, a spark, the historical German grind that we lacked with Pep. With Pep it was more about our team safeguarding his philosophy and responding to his sideline joystick, with Ancelotti it is more about free flowing football with more flexibility for the players to express themselves, I feel that we take more risk at times but it is more entertaining and there is an adrenaline rush that can turn a complicated game around even when all odds are against us. I hope that putting some solid tactics behind this spirit with the right players in the next two seasons will take us to European glory again.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Manchu » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:20 am

MUTU wrote:
I really don't know what to make of this. Clearly, with neither Guardiola nor Ancelotti has the team reached the same levels of dominance they had in 2013 under Heynckes.


Heynckes first season was a failure. For God's sake, we completed a neverkusen. We managed to lose the Champions League final in our own stadium, we got destroyed in the Pokal final, and we came second in the league. Yet all of these were vast improvements over what had happened in 2010-11, and Heynckes rethought the team, made the right transfers(seriously, we didn't have one bad transfer under him), modified his tactics, and convinced Robbery to play defense. We got our Trebble season as a result.

I see the loss to Real in potentially much the same light. It's a massive improvement compared to what happened under Pep(270 minutes in Spain without a goal vs. 2 goals in 90), and it provides something that we can use as a springboard to success next season, once Ancelotti gets to make his transfers and achieves a better understanding of the squad. The squad has to be incredibly motivated: they know that they were robbed, they know that they can play against the best, and they know that they something to prove to the world. It's more or less the same situation we had in the summer of 2012.

Does that mean that we're destined to repeat the Trebble? Not necessarily, but it does mean that we have an edge and that we should reserve judgement on Ancelotti.

It's fair to criticize Ancelotti for, say, starting Alonso ahead of Muller, but it was also fair to criticize Jupp for substituting Muller in the game against Chelsea. Jupp learned better and perhaps Ancelotti will too.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby #12 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:35 am

Failure? Dude you have a weird understanding of "failure"... So much can happen in this sport... We came in close to a FIERCE Dortmund, lost the Pokal also due to our focus on the game one week later... And were just incredibly unlucky then...
Thanks for nothing, :pep: !!
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Achilles » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:04 pm

Jorge wrote:I hope that putting some solid tactics behind this spirit with the right players in the next two seasons will take us to European glory again.

I agree, we're not missing something that can't be found, we possess the right mentality as a club and our current players at their prime(more than 6) are forged to championship competition winning World Cup trophies,CL trophies and a bunch of domestic silverware. At this point football quality ain't enough if you don't mix it with personality and competitive spirit something that it's rare and difficult to find in the market, luckily enough we have those mix into our core players even after the Robbery & Lahm era!

Now, I'd like to comment on your "putting some solid tactics" about Ancelotti, the Italian doesn't make overhauls, doesn't change much into a team and doesn't like drastic changes, he does adjustments, working on small details. I can't see how he can put some solid new tactics, most likely scenario is to maintain our current tactics & gameplay by refreshing/improve it with 2-3 quality transfers and b)working hard into a new different formation as a backup for special situations.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby JANCKER » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:06 pm

Neuer - Boateng, Martínez, Hummels - Kimmich, Thiago, Alaba - Bernardeschi, Müller, Coman - Lewandowski
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:15 pm


Not what the majority of us wanted to read...

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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby nm462272 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:17 pm

revolution implies a complete overhaul... not sure that's what we need
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby #12 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:19 pm

He said playerS, as in more than one... Make it three and make it real quality, not shit like Brandt, Goretzka, Gnabry - and we're golden!
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Jorge » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:04 pm

Achilles wrote: Now, I'd like to comment on your "putting some solid tactics" about Ancelotti, the Italian doesn't make overhauls, doesn't change much into a team and doesn't like drastic changes, he does adjustments, working on small details. I can't see how he can put some solid new tactics, most likely scenario is to maintain our current tactics & gameplay by refreshing/improve it with 2-3 quality transfers and b)working hard into a new different formation as a backup for special situations.


Good point. In my opinion solid tactics comes down to that: man management for adaptability and having game changing options coming off the bench, flexibility in the way we play to adapt and/or deal with unpredictable scenarios. If I do not want something, and if something for me does not qualify as solid tactics, that's re-inventing football. Didn't we have enough of that in recent times?

We do need 2-3 transfers to have the depth required for Europe, not much for the Bundesliga, that along with the correct growth management of players already on board, like Kimmich, Sanches and Süle. I am not alarmed by Ancelotti saying that there will be no revolution: I strongly feel about the team that we have, maybe we need to sell a couple of players for the right price at the expense of shoring up some areas where we are a notch below our main European competitors, but that's pretty much it.
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Bentonomo » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:48 pm

#12 wrote:He said playerS, as in more than one... Make it three and make it real quality, not shit like Brandt, Goretzka, Gnabry - and we're golden!


Who do you want then ?
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Carlo Ancelotti

Postby #12 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:38 pm

Well I wanted Sané... He's gone... I wanted Dembélé... He's postponed... I think Sanchez plus one of the Monaco offensive (Lemar, Silva, Mbappé) or someone like Lacazette... Then sell Costa...
Should we need an RB and/or CM: Semedo and Tielemanns...

There's just not much German wc talent in the positions we need
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby Dumbledore7 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:40 pm

#12 wrote:I wanted Dembélé... He's postponed...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby #12 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:18 am

Well, do YOU think we're not at least gonna try?
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby IrishDave » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:26 pm

[quote="#12"] I think Sanchez

This talk of Sanchez drives me mad. A couple of points regarding Sanchez: he couldn't make it at another of the "big clubs" he wasn't good enough but yet you want him at Munich?. He has not done much for Arsenal against the big teams, he didn't really set the world on fire when we played them or when Chelsea and Liverpool beat them 3-1 or when they drew with PSG. This year he will be 29 years old, he's got what 2-3 years max playing at a high(ish) level so we would be landed with another Ribery/Robben, an aging player getting payed too much and stagnating the development of younger players. In the post Messi/Ronaldo football world we are facing in the next 2/3 years we need to be focusing on players aged in or around 20/21 now so that when Messi and Ronaldo are gone and the dominance of Barca and Madrid is disappearing, we will have top players hitting their stride.


[quote="#12"] plus one of the Monaco offensive (Lemar, Silva, Mbappé)

Now all these fit the bill, they're all young and talented BUT Lemar= 60 mil? Silva=80 mil? Mbappe= what 100 or 110mil? Spending that kinda money on one player is not really our thing. Could we even afford Mbappe?

[quote="#12"]Well I wanted Sané.

I agree. This really confused me, one of the top talents in football and we let him leave, makes no sense!

[quote="#12"] Should we need an RB and/or CM: Semedo and Tielemanns...

There's just not much German wc talent in the positions we need

I disagree. For starters we are the big dog in Germany and its time we went back to doing what we do best, we started to lose our identity under Pep and I don't even know what Mr Ancelotti is trying to do! We should be trying to t return to how we played under Jupp, take the Schalke 3, take a punt on Brandt (I've seen 40 million was the price for him, I don't believe that) lets return to Dortmund take Weigl and if we wanted to make a big statement across Europe go and put 40 mil on Draxler. Along with moving on some of the dead weight in the club likes of Costa, Rafinha could be used as a make weight in one of the deals, Benatia, and of course thank Mr Ancelotti and move him along also. A lot of those players could be brought in for the same money that would be paid for Silva. And tat level of player recruitment is needed because most of our players are the wrong side of 27!

Sorry :oops: Rant over
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Re: Carlo Ancelotti

Postby aterford » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:52 pm

This guy's management of the last month has been abysmal.

1 win in last 6 games.

Burnt our players out and didn't do enough to protect them from injury prior to UCL.

Now we drop points in league, don't get to rest any starters save for Lahm, and have a knockout game in 4 days on tired legs.

Inexcusable.
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